Dream About The Devil

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Dream About The Devil

Post by shawn.w.wallace on Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:21 pm

I had a dream a few nights ago, and I was hoping I could get some input on what the meaning might be.

I was shackled to a chair seated at a table for three. On the table there were there were three silver plates with nothing on them and there were five rotten apple strewn out across the table. I noticed that the room was devoid of light, but some how I could see the things around me. The Devil then entered my sight. He looked to be about 72in. tall, and well built. His body seemed to be composed of shadows and darkness, which also seemed to emanate off of His body. The best way I could think of describing him is as a three-dimensional silhouette. He spoke to me in an unintelligible language, but I was not afraid, I sat and listened. When He was done talking I woke up at around 0300, out of breath and soaked in sweat.

I would love to hear what anyone has to say.

Wallace

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Nyagali on Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:34 pm

Hi Wallace, yes, these dreams are no fun to have but remember that God is in control of your life at ALL times, even though dreams like this seem so fearful.

I'm not a dream interpreter so please pray on this. You may get a few views, so trust the Lord, not us!

You are sitting at a table set for 3. Three often represents God since he exists in trinity. You are shackled at a table for royalty (we are children of God) but you are served rotten food. What are you feeding on (spiritually)? It has gone rotten. You should know what this means in your real life. The room is dark. Where are you spiritually? Why are you in a dark room to begin with? This man (you call the devil) talked to you. Why did you continue to listen to him? Jesus says to listen to HIM (Jesus). If we sit and listen to what man or what the world has to say to us, we will walk in fear.

I notice that your age is 19. It is wonderful that you have reached out and asked. There are many dark paths in this life. Jesus constantly told his disciples to "fear not". Put your focus back on Jesus and you will not experience fear. It is interesting that in the dream you had no fear. I believe that is NOT a good place to be. This dream is a warning for you to not listen to these dark things in your life.
Blessings!
Joy

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by One Door on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:53 pm

Hello Shawn,
This is my perspective on your dream.
One of the ways Satan can keep us "shackled" (restrained; to keep under control) in our walk with the Lord is by using our lack of knowledge of God against us. I believe this is what your dream is showing.
I believe the table represents your covenant with God. You are "seated" (in covenant) but "shackled" (restrained; to keep under control). I believe the silver plates represent knowledge but there is no food (food represents the word of God) on the plates and you cannot eat (partake of) what is not there, therefore leaving you shackled (restrained; kept under control) in your walk with God. There is no food on the table except for the rotten apples and they are not worth eating. I am not sure what the rotten apples mean, my guess would be, since apples are fruit and fruit symbolizes words, be careful concerning the word of God what you take in (partake of; eat). The number of the apples (5) shows God's grace for you here. As you gain your knowledge of the word of God, those shackles will fall right off of you. It is the knowledge you acquire of HIM that will determine how big HE will be in your life. Little knowledge, little god. BIG KNOWLEDGE, BIG GOD.
Right now, which the dream shows, you do not have a lot of knowledge concerning God and HIS word and Satan knows that and that is just where "the devil" wants to keep you. My advice to you would be, get into the word of God and learn, learn, learn because that is the weapon you will need against your real enemy. I don't know the plans God has for you but your dream shows me Satan is very concerned about those plans; that is why Satan comes to make sure you are shackled (restrained) instead of sending one of his mangy crew to see to it. So again, get into the word of God and learn everything you can and become that threat that Satan is so afraid of.
By the way, love your picture but when I look at it I see a mighty fighter for the purposes of God.

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by shawn.w.wallace on Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:13 pm

Thank you both for you knowledge in this matter. I'm sorry It took me so long to reply. I was doing some training missions out in the desert and did not get back till a few nights ago.



Joy, your insight on my life and spiritual standing is correct. It has been some time since I have been connected to the church or even picked up a bible. This is due, in part, to a bitterness I have for God and the Church. (well not so much the church, people in church) My father died of several different cancers nearly 4 years ago when I was 15. People in the church prayed, my family prayed, I prayed that he would be healed. When he died, I went into a dark downward spiral that I am still recovering from. I now do own a Bible and read it everyday, and I'm working on my relationship with God. It is difficult to go to church tho. Being a medic in the Army keeps me busy, even
more so on the weekends as those are the days with deaths, accidents, and soldiers getting "sick". So I am often called in to the Aid Station (a sort of doctors office) to take care of whatever it is that needs to be done.



One Door, thank you for your interpretation. I felt like I knew what the dream meant, and I feel as tho it was sent as a conviction, or to make me more aware of where I am. I used to be (as much as I dislike the term) a "good Christan". When I was younger my mom and dad said that I had a servants heart and my pastor believed that I had the gift of foresight (prophesy) as I often knew of what was going on (like my dad getting a new job or suggesting that we look at a house that we eventually lived in). I am unsure if I had those gifts. My friends and I used to have long theological debates into the wee hours of the night when I was younger. Looking back I realize that we were thinking more from a "logical" stand point more than anything else. My friends grew in faith, and I in worldly ideology. I am pulling away from that way of thinking. It is difficult for me to accept a God that is all powerful and still allows the things that go on in this world to happen. But I understand that God's ways are not that of our own, and that because God is all powerful we do not necessarily understand His ways. The best way I think I can put it is that; I believe that the Bible is the Word of God and that it is Truth, but I have trouble accepting it because my mind conflicts with my soul and spirit. Until I am able to
reconcile them together, I won't have peace, or have a fruitful walk with God. I think so anyway.

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Nyagali on Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:41 pm

Hey Shawn, God bless you in this work and in your life! What a gift to give your life like this to others.

Thank you for sharing from your heart and with such honesty. I am so touched. Bitterness is understandabale. But all I can say is to meet Jesus again. He has never left you no matter where you have been or what you have done. he doesn't go anywhere! Isn't that wonderful? Don't worry about church, just meet Jesus again! He will come to you! Praise God. This is our hope. This is what the NT church hoped for, as we do to in these dark days.

Hope you share more dreams.....God bless you!
Joy

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Nyagali on Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:47 pm

PS....Shawn, just reading over the end of your email there....if I may say so as an old lady LOL....you are thinking too much about how to set things straight and not simply on a relationship with Jesus. That's what He wants. He came to give us life....He said that. Jesus clears our minds, Jesus sets our path straight, he is the way, the truth and our life, and HE renews the mind, we can't do that ourselves. You can't fix the mind with the mind through what you assume is good thinking. Jesus will take care of that. :-)
Joy

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by hind'sfeet on Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:22 pm

Shawn you sound like you are deployed. My husband is in Bagram with Dco 2-3 AVN, Task Force Knighthawks. I was going to tell you, Love the avatar!!!

You asked why God allows what goes on in the world. Earlier today I was replying to another dreamer friends post and I saw in my mind, God weeping, watching His child be in so much pain and suffering, for us. God gave us free will in the garden of Eden. God does not over ride free will, no matter how sick. He does intercede, but we cannot judge the mind of God. We don't see the whole plan and purpose that God sees in the end results of pain and suffering. After a fire cleanses the land and renews the earth of nutrients, trees seem to come back to life, new grass and plants grow, and it's even more fertile than before, it's a new spring. This is the fire that God cleanses us with. All the pain and suffering builds our faith and though we don't always see it at the time, when we have been praying and praying, then when we look back, all you can do is Praise God. Though that might take years sometimes.
I didn't grow up with a good family, though I did grow up in church. I don't want to go into all that. I'm one who became bitter, cynical, and unforgiving towards all who tormented me Or didn't do anything about it. There is a man named David, he wrote a series of bios of "A Boy Called It". I've read all the books and what amazes me is how he Never became angry, bitter, cynical, or unforgiving. He made that choice when he was quite young. I made the opposite choice. God has a plan for that as His plan for my life is a little different than David's. What is funny is that God's plan for David was for him to write books to help people like me!
I haven't been through that kind of loss and feeling that God did not answer my prayers. Though I have had the feeling of God not answering prayers quite often. God's plan is greater than ours and I wouldn't trade his plan for the world.
When you have those wonderful dreams that when you wake up happy, that is real. I know I would rather be in Heaven than on this earth with all junk in my house, figuratively and realistically. Look at my avatar and my verse. I went through that darkness too and for the first time understood the reason why people commit suicide. Since those days every day is a struggle to put one foot in front of the other, to beat the obstacles thrown in my path, or created by myself. Sometimes I wonder if God will ever change the ways I hate about myself that take me down.
I started attending a church that God brought me to, they helped me out of that pit.
We have since PCSed and God gave me a new church. I told Him that "I don't want to go to any church except the one that YOU want me to go to, the first person to ask me is the church You want me to go to." The first person asked me and that saturday night I asked God for a couple of confirmations, one was one that He know I would know when I heard it, another one I actually told him never mind about... My son listening to me and I asked him what the confirmation would be, he wanted hamburgers SO BAD but I didn't even have money for 1. So that was actually the first confirmation I asked him for and then told Him never mind. Well, first confirmation, WOW, 2nd WOWIE, both came from the Same person!! God cares about the little things. God built my faith on the big things first, the ones that I felt backed into a corner, those took YEARS to get me to the little things. I can't live without those little miracles anymore.
I hope that wasn't too much.
This group will help build your faith by seeing what God does truly in our lives every day. You have support here, but you still need to ask God for a church.
Listen to Joy and One


Last edited by hind'sfeet on Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed a word.)

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Nyagali on Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:30 am

Hind'sfeet, I've read his books. My heart goes out to you if you even experienced half of what he did! I think for him it was more than just positive thinking. He also saw the truth of the state his mother was in. I marvel at how he got past all of this without a mention of Jesus. I think it shows the power of the mind and choices. It's all available to the whole world. But for me, to let Jesus take those choices and thoughts seems a more peaceful way in life. His story is very real and touching! You should write yours out. I just wrote my life story (35 pages later) and it was a good way for me to put the past behind. It just seemed the right time in life to do that. It's not for people to read, I just did it for me and my sister to read (and correct some details :-) and maybe my kids when I pass on. I enjoyed the whole process.

What is "PCSed"? You are right about only going where God directs you about church. So many teach false doctrines and then people are more messed up, or worse, deceived and don't know it! Follow Jesus, he speaks to you if you are "in" church or not. I've found amazing fellowship, encouragement and blessing in a coffee shop or in the park, (this week in was in funeral reception room!) Way better than sitting in a pew behind someones head! God will bring us what we need no matter.
Joy

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by hind'sfeet on Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:19 am

Joy, PCS stands for Permanent Change of Station (military move). Though it's funny because it's not that permanent, sometimes it is depending on if you get out while stationed there and opt not to have the military move you.

I don't really want to write it out. I've talked about it so much that I have finally lost the need to tell. I still do talk about it, I just have a need for myself to.
My mom was cruel, but not that cruel. She could have her loving side but it could change in a flash. I eventually was turned off and suspicious/cautious of her and hated her touching me. In my early teens she started calling me bad words because her husband was calling me psychological terms. I felt ganged up on. They made sure my teen years were the worst years of my life. Funny thing was they were/are both "christian" but where was Christ? He was vulgar with me about men just want to "screw you". It made me so sick, and just thinking about it still makes me sick. He really screwed my mind/sexuality up more than any man could. My mom didn't help anything because she was embarrassed all the time in public because she would do stupid stuff no one does. So, I saw her as an embarrassment and they called ME one, in reality I was embarrassed of them. I would never ever tell her/talk to her about my period, nothing. She would give me "growing up" books that just happened to only have changes of the body. I learned what a period was from friends who got them in elementary school... I didn't get mine till 6th grade... (6th grade is when he started being vulgar with me about boys/men because they had found a vulgar note from one of the girls at my school to one of the boys in my class, and said it was MINE, that I WROTE IT, they were adamant, I was too that I didn't write it, just because she wrote her "s" just like me, though none of the rest of the writing was like mine. I picked up the note the boy had dropped. He was someone I didn't like because he had a mean face and I was scared of him. She was telling him that she wanted to F... him in the bathroom etc. We were in the 6th grade!! I think this is one thing I don't talk about a lot...) My mom kept pads in the cabinet but I wouldn't use them because she would know I was on my period... AFTER I was married my husband and I got pregnant and I didn't tell my mom till I was 5 or 6 months into it. I didn't even tell her, she found out soon after a good friend took me to get one of those in the tummy baby pictures (forgot the term, don't want to look it up) and it was the new 3d kind. My son was so cute and precious. I was MARRIED and couldn't even admit I was pregnant because it would be admitting I had sex and they were the last people On Earth I would ever have admitted that too (made me sick to even think of it)! I was 21. When her husband/my guardian found out (he's the one I grew up with, not my dad), he started berating me, even having the gall to ask me "why didn't he (MY HUSBAND) wear a condom"!!! Seriously, gross?! I can't believe I even replied to that, eeww ickiness!! I told him I was allergic to them!! (He sexually abused me when I was little) I don't think it's any of their business. I even got a berating from my Husband's MOM!! Seriously?! Like we need permission?! Maybe they were just mad because we didn't feel a need to ask permission to get married either because it just wasn't their business. After all, his mom couldn't even keep a steady relationship, never been married and a liberal to boot. My parents were just disgusting and hypocritical to me. I have NEVER asked them for advice for ANYTHING!! I have always relied on books or other people I knew that had been there done that, but Never our parents. I don't ask them for anything either, though they have all sent money at times we needed it and all except for one time recently did my parents actually know they were sending money cause we needed it. My husband has asked for money a lot from his mom or grandmother.

I think I just opened a New can of worms/unforgiveness to deal with! When will this EVER End. I knew I felt like I hadn't totally forgiven them...

I agree that Jesus speaks to us through any of His people in any environment!

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Nyagali on Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:07 am

Have either of you read the book called "The Shack"? I'm just rereading it and have this aft off work on this rainy day. While I'm reading I thought of this post and jumped on here and ask. If you have let me know your thoughts, if not, I really encourage you both to go get your own copy. William Paul Young, the author, was abused as a child himself, as a missionary child. The book deals with a fictional story of him meeting God in a shack and the conversations are amazing. I won't go on about it except to say that in both your situations the Spirit could speak to you directly and answer a lot of questions (especially for you Shawn) about our view of who God really is as he deals with disappointment and many other issues we all have in life.

Hind's Feet, wow. Thank you for sharing. I understand you not wanting to write your story out. (And Thank you shawn for letting us share all this on your post...see how God is using you already?) I am sure God has given you a tender heart to those with abuse too. When we lose the need to tell our story it can be a wonderful thing. I never went through the same story as you, but we all have to deal with difficult things in life no matter what our story. I'm so thankful to be getting to know you

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by hind'sfeet on Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:53 pm

You're welcome Joy

I really don't plan on reading "the Shack". I know you're intentions are honorable. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this:
I actually had never heard of the book until I saw some post or something about it and I looked it up. The first thing I saw about the book was "heresy" (which after reading this, I might have said some heresy myself when I said I "saw GOD weeping" I should have added that I didn't see a face) and reviews denouncing the book. I had to see what they said. I couldn't believe what this book was trying to sneak into Christians beliefs/mind and also I couldn't believe that it has been so widely read and approved by Christians.
Several of the heretical teachings have been pulled out of the book and listed under is the verse proving the teaching to be a lie.

These kinds of things are why I'm wary of t.v. preachers and christian book writers. I don't want to have a false belief taint the Truth that I'm trying to learn. It's good to know your "enemy" and his teachings so you can refute them, so Here are some of 13 heresies that have been found:

This first one is a hard break down and the second one goes into it a lot more.

http://www.generationcedar.com/main/2009/06/whats-wrong-with-the-shack-13-heresies.html
"13 Heresies in The Shack

1. God the Father was crucified with Jesus. Because God’s eyes are pure and
cannot look upon sin, the Bible says that God would not look upon His
own beloved Son as He hung on the Cross, carrying our sins (Habakkuk
1:13; Matthew 27:45).
2. God is limited by His love and cannot practice justice.
The Bible declares that God’s
love and His justice are two sides of the same coin — equally a part of
the personality and the character of God (Isaiah 61:8; Hosea 2:19).
3. On the Cross, God forgave all of humanity, whether they
repent or not. Some choose a relationship with Him, but He forgives them
all regardless.
Jesus explained that only those
who come to Him will be saved (John 14:6).
4. Hierarchical structures, whether they are in the Church or
in the government, are evil.
Our God is a God of order (Job
25:2).
5. God will never judge people for their sins. The Word of God repeatedly
invites people to escape from the judgment of God by believing in Jesus
Christ, His Son (Romans 2:16; 2 Timothy 4:1-3).
6. There is not a hierarchical structure in the Godhead, just
a circle of unity.
The Bible says that Jesus
submitted to the will of the Father. This doesn’t mean that one Person
is higher or better than the other; just unique. Jesus said, “I came to
do the will of Him who sent me. I am here to obey my Father.” Jesus also
said, “I will send you the Holy Spirit” (John 4:34, 6:44, 14:26,
15:26).
7. God submits to human wishes and choices. Far from God submitting to us,
Jesus said, “Narrow is the way that leads to eternal life.” We are to
submit to Him in all things, for His glory and because of what He has
accomplished for us (Matthew 7:13-15).
8. Justice will never take place because of love. The Bible teaches that when
God’s love is rejected, and when the offer of salvation and forgiveness
is rejected, justice must take place or God has sent Jesus Christ to die
on the cross for nothing (Matthew 12:20; Romans 3:25-26).
9. There is no such a thing as eternal judgment or torment in
hell.
Jesus’ own description of hell
is vivid … it cannot be denied (Luke 12:5, 16:23).
10. Jesus is walking with all people in their different
journeys to God, and it doesn’t matter which way you get to Him.

Jesus said, “I am the way, the
truth, and the life, and no one will come to the Father but by me” (John
14:6).
11. Jesus is constantly being transformed along with us.
Jesus, who dwells in the
splendor of heaven, sits at the right hand of God, reigning and ruling
the universe. The Bible says, “In Him there is no change, for He is
yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 11:12, 13:8; James 1:17).
12. There is no need for faith or reconciliation with God
because everyone will make it to heaven.
Jesus said, “Only those who
believe in me will have eternal life” (John 3:15, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40).

13. The Bible is not true because it reduces God to paper.

The Bible is God-breathed. Sure,
there were many men through 1,800 years who put pen to paper (so to
speak), each from different professions and different backgrounds, but
the Holy Spirit infused their work with God’s words. These men were
writing the same message from Genesis to Revelation. If you want to read
more about the place of Christ in the scripture, read “We Preach Christ” (2 Timothy 3:16)."



http://www.carm.org/more-stuff/features/shack


"The Shack












by Matt Slick
(Matt Slick
interviews Paul Young on Faith and Reason Radio)
"The Shack" is a popular book in Christian circles, at least
at the time this article was written in May of 2008. The Shack is
supposed to be the account of a person who spent a weekend with God the
Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in a shack in a forest. It
is a fictional story1
of Mr. Mackenzie Allen Phillips, written by William P. Young. Mack
suffers the horrible loss of his young daughter to a serial killer. Of
course, Mack is highly distraught and traumatized. The book is about
his "healing" via an encounter with the persons of the Trinity who all
three take human form and dialogue with him in this cabin and the
surrounding countryside. It is written well enough to be an enjoyable
read. It has many positive things to say, such as God being loving,
that he wants a relationship with us, and that Jesus died for us. But,
it has enough things in it raise a cautionary flag. According to
Mack's account, God summoned him, via a note, to a shack -- the very one
where, apparently, his daughter was killed. In this shack, God the
Father appeared to him as an African American woman (p. 82) named Papa
(p. 86). Jesus is a Middle Easterner who "was dressed like a laborer,
complete with tool belt... and a plaid shirt with sleeves rolled just
above the elbows," (p. 84). The Holy Spirit was an Asian woman (p. 85)
who was named Sarayu (p. 87, 110). If you know your Bible, this
should trouble you. First of all, scripture tells us that the Father
cannot be seen (John 6:46; 1 Tim. 6:16).
The Holy Spirit never appears as an individual, but as a dove (Matt. 3:15),
wind (John 3:5), and
fire (Acts 2:3).
Jesus was most certainly Middle Eastern, but it seems highly unlikely he
will appear with a tool belt and plaid shirt. Other problems are
as follows. The Father had scars on his wrists - like the crucifixion
wounds of Christ (p. 95). This is wrong. It was not the Father who was
crucified. The person of the Father has no body of flesh and bones as
does the Son (John 4:24; Luke 24:39).
Yet, in the book, the Father has scars. Perhaps this is supposed to be
an expression of how each member of the Godhead shares in the being of
the others, but if that is so, shouldn't the representation be
biblically accurate? I certainly think so. Therefore, it should not be
that the Father would have scars on his wrists -- since He has no
wrists and He does not appear to anyone (John 6:46; 1 Tim. 6:16).
On a positive note, the Trinity is represented pretty well. "We are
not three gods, and we are not talking about one God with three
attitudes, like a man who is a husband, father, and worker. I am one
God and I am three persons, and each of the three is fully and entirely
the one," (p. 101). That was encouraging, as were other areas that
spoke about forgiveness, love, relationships, atonement, etc. But,
other important issues surfaced within the pages. In biblical
Christianity, there is a doctrine called the Economic
Trinity. It describes the relationship of the members of the
Godhead with each other as well as with us. For example, the Father
sent the Son. The Son did not send the Father, (John 6:44; 8:18; 10:36; 1 John 4:14).
Jesus came down from heaven, not to do His own will, but the will of
the Father (John 6:38).
The Father is the head of Christ (1 Cor. 11:3).
And, 1 Cor.
15:27-28 speaks of creation being in subjection to Jesus and then in
verse 28, Jesus will be subjected to the Father. The Greek word-form
for "will be subjected" is 'hupotagasetai,' which is the future,
passive, indicative. This means that it is a future event where Jesus
will be subjected to the Father forever. All this means is that there
is a hierarchy within the Trinity. But, when we turn to page 124 we
find this, "So you think that God must relate inside a hierarchy like
you do. But we do not." This blatantly contradicts scripture.
Therefore, Mack's account cannot be true since it contradicts scripture.
On page 136 it says, "Mackenzie, evil is a word we use to describe
the absence of Good, just as we use the word darkness to describe the
absence of Light or death to describe the absence of Life. Both evil
and darkness can only be understood in relation to Light and Good; they
do not have any actual existence." This is humanistic philosophy. The
Bible clearly tells us that evil is a reality and is not merely the
absence of God. Satan is, for the lack of a better term, the
manifestation of evil. Furthermore, Jesus says that God is good (Luke 18:19)
and holy (1 Pet. 1:16).
This is a description of God's nature. God is good by nature. We
don't need evil to know what good is because we have God's perfect
goodness to inform us. On page 145-146 we find, "Mack was
surprised. 'How could that be? Why would the God of the universe want to
be submitted to me?' 'Because we want you to join us in our circle of
relationship. I don't want slaves to my will; I want brothers and
sisters who will share life with me.'" We have to ask, is there any
place in scripture where God expresses a desire to be submitted to an
individual human being? Nope. But, we have the incarnation of Christ
where Jesus was made under the law (Gal. 4:4), and
was therefore in subjection to his earthly parents. But, this is due
to the incarnation and was part of the process of the atonement. Where
in scripture do we find God desiring his submission to individuals? I
know of no reference. If anything, we the creatures are to be in
subjection to the Holy and Majestic God of the universe, not the other
way around. I found this to be a reduction of God's glory and an
elevation of man's stature -- something false religious systems do. There
was an emphasis in the book on building relationships. This is good.
We don't want sterile and stale doctrinal statements governing our
relationship with God. Our Holy Lord cannot be reduced to doctrinal
formulas, but the scriptures do declare certain things about God with a
sufficiency and clarity that should guide our understanding of Him.
This in turn will naturally affect our relationship with God. So, any
relationship with Him cannot violate the doctrinal revelation that He
has given us in the Bible. Having said this, I had the distinct
impression while reading the book that having a proper understanding of
God was somehow something to be avoided. "Doctrine" was subtly
ridiculed, along with the idea of formal theological training. The
Bible, as God's word, was not elevated as inspired and the standard of
truth. Instead, subjective experience with God was promoted. This is
exactly how error develops -- when people look to experience rather than
the Bible to guide their spirituality. I'm not saying we
shouldn't have an experience of and with God. We have to be careful not
to elevate human doctrines above God himself. But, knowing God is not
simply about relationship. It is also about truth and knowing Him in
truth (John 17:3).
We are commanded in the Bible to have both an intimate relationship with
God through the person of Christ (1 Cor. 1:9),
and to know Him truthfully. We are called to exhort in sound doctrine (Titus 1:9),
to "speak the things which are fitting for sound
doctrine" (Titus 2:1),
and to have purity in doctrine (Titus 2:7).
Such doctrines include the revelation of God, His nature, His calling,
His sovereignty, His holiness, His majesty, His purpose for us, His
redemptive work, and all other such teachings which are vitally
important to us in order to properly understand God and to properly
discern if the subjective spiritual experiences we have are true or
false. But let's get back to the book. On page 205 God says to
Mack, "My words are alive and dynamic-full of life and possibility;
yours are dead, full of law and fear and judgment. That is why you
won't find the word responsibility in the scriptures." That caught my
eye, so I went to my computer Bible program and did a search for the
word responsibility. I found that in the New American Standard Bible it
occurs four times (Num. 4:16; 1 Chr. 9:31;
Ezra 10:4; 1 Tim. 5:22).
It does not occur in the King James. The NIV has it in 13 places. So,
that's a problem. Here is another concern. Does God place
expectations on us? Does He expect us to believe in Him, to follow Him,
to seek to be like Christ, to love others, to worship Him in truth,
etc.? Of course He does, yet on page 206 Papa (God the Father) says,
"Honey, I've never placed an expectation on you or anyone else. The
idea behind expectations requires that someone does not know the future
or outcome and is trying to control behavior to get the desired
result." Well, this is a problem since God does expect certain things
from us, and it is not necessarily true that an expectation from God
means He doesn't know what the result will already be. God knows we are
sinners, yet expects us to be holy. God says, "you
shall be holy, for I am holy," (1 Pet. 1:16).
God expects us to pick up our crosses and follow after Christ (Matt. 10:38).
So, again, the Shack comes up short. Universalism
is the unbiblical teaching that through the atoning work of Christ all
people will be saved. The book seems to hint towards that, but I wasn't
sure if Mack was saying that God was advocating it. On page 225 we are
told by God, "In Jesus, I have forgiven all humans for their sins
against me, but only some choose relationship." Logically, if all
humans are forgiven of their sins, then all humans go to heaven. This
is the doctrine of universalism, and it is a heresy that is contradicted
by scripture (Mark 3:28; Matt. 25:46).
Some quotes

Following are various quotes extracted from the
pages of the book. They reveal the casual and, if I might say,
irreverent manner in which the holy and majestic God is portrayed.
Anyone who has encountered God in the Old and New Testaments is humbled a
great deal and never speaks of God in any casual or flippant manner.
See Isaiah 6:1-4
for the biblical response to God's presence and contrast it with the
following.

  1. Jesus speaking to Mack about the Father who is
    an African American Woman (p. 89).

    1. "Jesus laughed, 'She's a
      riot!'"

  2. Here is a dialogue found on page 90. Mack
    is speaking to the Father who is listening to music.

    1. "May I ask
      what you're listening to?"
      "You really wanna know"?
      "Sure." Now
      Mack was curious.
      "West Coast Juice. Group called Diatribe and an
      album that isn't even out yet called Heart Trips. Actually," she winked
      at Mack, "these kids haven't even been born yet."
      "Right," Mac
      responded, more than a little incredulous. "West Coast Juice, huh? It
      doesn't sound very religious."
      "Oh, trust me, it's not. More like
      Eurasian funk and blues with a message, and a great beat." She
      sidestepped toward Mack as if she were doing a dance move and clapped.
      Mack stepped back.

  3. Jesus wiped the Father's (Papa)
    feet. (p. 105)

    1. "'Ooooh, that feels soooo good!' exclaimed Papa,
      as she continued her tasks at the counter."

  4. Jesus
    and Mack together (p. 108).

    1. "'C'mon,' said Jesus, interrupting
      Mack's thoughts. 'I know you enjoy looking at stars! Want to?' He
      sounded just like a child full of anticipation and expectancy."

  5. Food is being passed around at a table (p. 121).

    1. "'Whoa,'
      said Papa, who had returned from the kitchen with yet another dish.
      'Take it easy on those greens, young man. Those things can give you the
      trots if you ain't careful.'"

  6. By a lakeside,
    skipping stones (pp. 170-171).

    1. "As he entered the clearing, he
      saw Jesus still waiting, still skipping stones." "Hey, I think my best
      was 13 skips," he said as he laughed and walked to meet Mack. "But
      Tyler beat me by three and Josh threw one that skipped so fast we all
      lost count."

  7. While Jesus and Mack are walking on
    water and see a large trout (pp. 175-176).

    1. Jesus said, "'I've
      been trying to catch him for weeks, and here he comes just to bait me,'
      he laughed. Mack watched, amazed, as Jesus started to dodge this way
      and that, trying to keep up with the fish, and finally gave up. He
      looked at Mack, excited as a little kid. 'Isn't he great? I'll probably
      never catch him.'"

  8. Jesus and Mack are talking (p.
    182).

    1. Jesus said, "Those who love me come from every system
      that exists. They were Buddhists or Mormons, Baptist or Muslims,
      Democrats, Republicans and many who don't vote or are not part of any
      Sunday morning or religious institutions. I have followers who were
      murderers and many who were self-righteous. Some are bankers and
      bookies, Americans and Iraqis, Jews and Palestinians. I have no desire
      to make them Christian, but I do want to join them in their
      transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and
      sisters, into my beloved."

  9. The Father and Mack are
    talking about forgiving the man who murdered Mack's daughter (p. 224).

    1. "Mack, for you to forgive this man is for you to release him to me
      and allow me to redeem him."

Would you
consider the previous examples to be how God would actually speak and
behave? Is this how we are to understand God? Is this scriptural? Conclusion


Would I recommend this book? No, I would not. It is full of
theological problems as well as an irreverent and casual attitude toward
God. Yes, there are nice things in it and people might even be helped
by the book. But so what? There are some nice things in Mormonism,
too. Should we encourage people to read the Book of Mormon because
Mormonism might help someone feel better? Not at all. Sadly,
experience has shown me that most Christians aren't interested in
biblical fidelity. No, I'm not talking about biblical nit-picking. I'm
talking about fidelity to the revealed word of God to the point where
we don't contradict what is plainly stated in scripture! We
Christians should regard the word of God as the final authority on all
things, and any supposed accounts of actual occurrences should be
compared to scripture, not our feelings, wants, and desires. In the
case of The Shack, the book falls woefully short of scriptural truth in
many important areas and has the strong ability to mislead people
regarding God's nature, work, and plan for us. Again, I do not
recommend it. Update

On July 9, 2008, I interviewed the
author of The Shack on my radio show. William P. Young, who goes by
Paul Young, defended his book and everything in it. He denied the
economic trinity. He justified writing his work under the umbrella of
imagery and representing the Father as being seen, and as a black
woman. It took numerous times for me to get him to admit that the
Father was not crucified. He repeatedly would not answer my question
about his statement that God in Jesus has forgiven all people of their
sins -- which He has not done. After asking him about this over and
over, he would only respond with "Jesus is the savior of the world." It
was a real problem trying to get him to answer. Unfortunately, I
cannot recommend this book."
I saw that this book was written in 08. I am worried that I might have been taught some of those heresies. You know how our brains are. You have to really dig deep to find the lies. Like when Satan tempted Eve, he mixed some truth with the lie. That is so hard to pick out sometimes, esp. if it's the teaching goes into a deeper level that you are not as familiar with. You think "cool, I'm learning something new"... but it that something "new" the truth or a lie being taught in the guise of being at a deeper level. That's what I'm wary of.

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Nyagali on Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:34 pm

Hind's feet, I am sorry that you saw all this stuff on the Internet. I really am. I know this is out there but I can honestly say that this book is more about truth than anything close to what these people say. If you let the Lord speak to you as you read it you could know this yourself rather than what these people say. I really am sorry you read that stuff. Let the Lord speak to your heart, not man! We have to listen to the Spirit of God, NOT MAN. This is how the church is so messed up.

And....you find out at the end of the book it is a dream so no wonder people are confused about the symbolism. I felt in my heart this afternoon that the Lord would speak to you through this book. Trust Jesus, not me. I know he will bless your heart so big that you won't even believe it yourself!

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Nyagali on Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:46 pm

If YOU read the book I will discuss these points with you but there is no point discussing it if you don't have your own opinions.
Your sister,
Joy

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by hind'sfeet on Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:08 pm

Is that something he dreamt? Or a story he made up and said it was a dream?

I'll have to ask God about it.
I've asked Him for a confirmation

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Nyagali on Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:11 pm

When I share this I want it clear that I'm not promoting the man or the book. It's just that I've read it and it blessed me. :-)

No, he didn't dream it, it never came to him as a dream but some parts are real conversations he had with God. He asks the tough questions. He was brought up in Iryan Jaya or somewhere like that. He had tribal gang rapes and missionary boys in boarding school sexually abuse him as a child. Then he come to the US and Canada and became a minister as an adult. He was a messed up person but got married, had a family and became a pastor, and a teacher I think (not sure on that). Then he almost (I think) had an affair. It was at that point life crashed in. He had to face his "demons" in his life. He got help and God met him and showed him who he really is. It took several years. He was working in construction or something like that when he wrote the book. He always wrote little stories and one day his wife said to him that maybe he should write a story expressing his view of God and what he went through. He did that with this book.

I understand how we listen to those on the Internet and pastors and well meaning believers. But not everyone understands pain and suffering and can fit God into that. We've made the bible out to be so black and white and it isn't. God isn't. You can't take the book and judge it theologically. He said it was written as a metaphore or a parable. It was a story he wrote to his children without ANY thought this book would go farther than family and a few friends. I do believe him when he says that and friends interviewed have confirmed that. They are the ones who said that this has to be published. But guess what? No one would publish it. No one! The Christian publishing companies all said it was too "edgy", No one would read it. The non-christian companies said it wasn't believable. So, his friends got together and came up with what they could and published about 20T themselves, thinking they'd have tons left over. But people told more people and now it's sold many million copies. You can't stop truth. He expresses a God the church NEEDS to hear about so some boxes in our understanding can begin to crack so we can hear God ourselves and not through Man. It touches more than the emotions, it goes right to the core of your beliefs. To tell the truth, it is the "Christianity" I believe in and have before this book was written for many years. It was a joy for us to read this and know that millions of people now have and the Lord is getting His word and His truth to people. The very fact that the book wouldn't be published was proof that God did this. There was no publicity, no advertising, nothing for it to sell. God did it word by word. Man had no control, the Lord was the one to take it from a story written for children into millions of hands. The author admits that God did it all, he had nothing to do with it except write.
Your sister,
Joy


Last edited by Nyagali on Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:42 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : corrected/added a few spots)

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Kiri on Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:19 pm

Yes, Nyagali, I loved the book too. In life, every day, we need to "pick the meat and throw out the bones". Watching TV, listening to the radio, we have our spiritual filters on, rejecting the rubbish. There will always be people who love to pull other people's efforts apart. I think it's great, HF, that your heart is so keen to be obedient and only take in what the Lord wants for you.

I hadn't read anything negative when I bought the book. I'm glad. I would have missed out on a growth spurt.

I know this book helped me relax even more with Jesus, and challenged me to see that the Trinity is way way bigger than the box I've put them in. No wonder the enemy is keen to discredit it.

As far as the conversations in the book, maybe I'm weird, but the Lord speaks to me very, very casually. Sometimes it's stern, but most of the time it's just warm, comfortable conversation, often humorous and cheeky. I have sometimes wondered if He is that cheeky with everyone!!

Sometimes the enemy can shackle us with fear of "doing something wrong". I spent a lot of years with a very black or white thinking. Coming from an occultic background, in my loyalty to Jesus I overdid it, desperate to never go "back". However, I've learned that there's a rainbow of color that God has for us. Pastors have told my husband and I that God does things for us that he doesn't do for other people. Honestly, I think it's part of the rainbow.

C'mon, do a Peter. It's safe in the boat, but that's not where the miracle is.

Love and hugs. Kiri.

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Re: Dream About The Devil

Post by Nyagali on Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:48 am

Hi Keri, yes, it does give many a fresh view of the love of God and how he communicates. We also see clearly in the book, and I believe this is scriptural, and my own experience, too often the enemy is our own mind. There are so many wonderful conversations and questions in the book.

I found some links where the author was interviewed and thought it was much better to let him speak rather than me. :-) This one was in Canada and not by a Christian. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e4b9zzqYN8&feature=fvw
love and hugs to you too!
Joy


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