Physical and Spiritual Needs

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Re: Physical and Spiritual Needs

Post by lola21st on Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:35 pm

Josue -

I'm sure you mean well and are trying to encourage Kelba04, but some of what you have stated doesn't sit well in my spirit because it appears to contradict scripture. I want to make sure I understand what you are saying to make sure I haven't taken anything the wrong way. Would you mind providing the biblical basis for your statements, especially the following?

What happens if you don´t feed your body? You simply die in one way or another....and What happens if you don´t feed yourself spiritually? You simply die in one way or another spiritually speaking.... so you need both things...you need those two worlds because both of them make a whole. You cannot live only in the spiritual and not feed your body and you cannot live only for your body without feeding yourself spiritually.

and

So... do what you want to do in your life and don´t worry if it is a mistake because you have the right to make mistakes.

Thanks and God bless you.

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Re: Physical and Spiritual Needs

Post by Josue Tortola on Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:05 pm

Hi Lola21st!!!
I understand your concern because you are a moderator in this group and you need to maintain everything within certain limitis so this is what I have to tell you.

We are spirits living into a body made of flesh...our bodies need material things and our spirits need spiritual things... besides that, we are here on planet Earth to learn...about the material world and also about the spiritual world.
Feeding the body
When Moses was with the Jews in the desert they were fed, otherway they would have died. Many parts of the Exodus Book.

When Jesus fed the 4,000 and then the 5,000 people he did it because their bodies needed food even though he had been doing spiritual things to them. Mathew Chapter 14 vers.13 to 21

The prophet Elijah was fed by an angel because his body needed the material things to live. 1st of Kings Chapter 19

Feeding the spirit.
Mathew Chapter 4 vers. 4 In this passage Jesus is telling to Satan that the man is not going to live only because of food...the man also needs the spiritual things that come from God.

Marcus Chapter 9 vers. 28 and 29 Here Jesus is telling to the 12 that they need to pray and fast to be able to cast down some kind of demons.

So you can see that there's a conecction body-spirit...spirit-body.

Cocerning to the second part of your question....I can tell you this...sometimes the only way to learn something is by living it whether a mistake or not...this is also a part of our learning process.

I can sense that your main corcern is if I am aproving that she has sex without been married and if that's the case my answer is that I cannot judge anybody...that's something between she and God.
With love!!! Josue Tortola.

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Re: Physical and Spiritual Needs

Post by lola21st on Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:46 am

Hi Josue -

Thanks for your response. I'm glad I asked for clarification because based on the context in which your original statement was made, I would never have associated the physical need you refer to as dealing with food. I appreciate the scriptures that you've presented and have comments but I feel that the turn that this discussion may take could take away from Kelba's dream and desire for the interpretation of it. What I'm going to do is make a copy of our posts in another section of the site where we (and anyone else who is interested) can continue to dialogue about this.

For context, please read the dream "Please Help Me Interpret This Dream...Urgent!!"......I want to continue this discussion here vs in the dream thread....


Last edited by lola21st on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : removed one section so that the post made sense in this section)

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Re: Physical and Spiritual Needs

Post by NeWine on Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:12 am

True that we need water and food to sustain us. These are needs that our bodies cannot do with out. And true also, as we need food and water, so we need the "Bread of Life" and the "Well" that runs not dry ... with out these we die.

I must have read the post wrong myself because I thought that "sexual needs" were included as those things in our life that naturally need to be fed ... or something in us would die. Though it is a passion that should not be "awakened" outside of marriage ( because God designed it for a purpose to procreate and bring husband and wife together as one). It is not something that "needs to be fed". In fact it's use is to "feed" the relationship between husband and wife and their passion for one another. To "use it" in any other way fragments the person, between as many as they give themselves to.

Carnality needs to be fed, and is never satisfied, sadly it can consume us. Cancer needs to be fed to survive, and it consumes the host that feeds it, in turn destroying itself. This is the nature of sin, as well. When sin is finished it brings forth death. James 1:14-15

“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything. “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
—1 Corinthians 6:9-20


But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
—Galatians 5:16-21


They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. But that is not the way you learned Christ!— assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
—Ephesians 4:19-24


But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
—Ephesians 5:3-5


For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.
—1 Thessalonians 4:3-8


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Re: Physical and Spiritual Needs

Post by lola21st on Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:36 pm

Amen, NeWine.

As NeWine stated, the problem with meeting our physical needs is that they are never satisfied, they can consume us and eventually destroy us if not addressed. Paul made reference to the fact that even though something isn’t sinful, it isn’t always good for us. (1 Corinthians 6:12).

He also addressed this tension between physical and spiritual needs in Romans 8. He explains that by setting our focus on things of the spirit rather than on things of the flesh, we please God and we also have peace in our lives. Further, with the spirit of God now residing in us, we can be free from the power of sin through Him that works through us because we’re focused on Him rather than our physical desires:

Romans 8

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Sonship Through the Spirit

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.


As it relates to your second statement, I think the thing that concerns me is that it can be interpreted in a way that essentially makes it loose advice. Again, I may have misunderstood where you were coming from, but your statement has a connotation of 'do whatever you want and let the chips fall where they may' and this is problematic because it's not biblical nor it is reasonable/practical advice. While I agree that experience is the best teacher, God gives us certain principles/parameters within which we are called to live so that we can experience the abundant blessings and eternal life that He offers us and so that we can save ourselves from trouble and heartache by not being obedient.

Again in Romans, Paul states that though we're under God's grace, that doesn't give us license to sin freely:

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Throughout the New Testament scripture shows us that we can't serve both our physical desires and our spiritual desires. Our physical needs must become subject to our spiritual needs which are greater and produce much more joy than the lack of physical needs produces suffering (Romans 8:18 - For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.).

Also, I want to clarify a couple of points because I don't want to be misunderstood:

- My main concern wasn't whether or not through your statements you were approving the original poster's (OP's) recent activities, it was that your statements suggested that you were condoning all behavior and came across as "it's our lives and we can do with our individual lives what we want". Which in itself is inaccurate as we were bought at a price and are God's property, our lives are not our own (1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body[c] and in your spirit, which are God’s.).

- I agree with you that we can't judge the OP. None of us are in a position to judge others, we all fall short of the glory of God and are all works in progress. The moment we get overconfident in our righteousness, that's the precise moment the enemy will have the open door to come into our lives and wreak havoc. (1 Corinthians 10:12, Romans 3:23, Matthew 7:1, Luke 6:37).

- While I am a moderator and one of my roles is indeed to ensure that order on the site in maintained, I posted my question to you and my subsequent comments as one Christian to another, not as a moderator. in other words, I would've taken this action regardless of my role on the site. It is easy to read something online (or hear something IRL) and accept it as Truth without questioning it. There are some members here who are young in their walk with the Lord and I wouldn't want them to walk away with an incomplete (if not inaccurate) understanding of Christian doctrine as is so easy to do on web based forums (and IRL too). As a result, it is important that we get clarity when needed and have a dialogue to make sure we're all on the same page and to make sure that page is in the Bible.

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Re: Physical and Spiritual Needs

Post by Virtuous on Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:38 am

I can sense that your main corcern is if I am aproving that she has sex without been married and if that's the case my answer is that I cannot judge anybody...that's something between she and God.
I think this is a problem for many. If we are followers of Christ, it is our responsibility to speak the Word concerning ALL things.

We are going to be held accountable BY GOD for not opening our mouths and telling people the truth about what He says in His word. If we don't tell them, the world is going to tell them something and that something is going to lead them straight to hell. It's not judging, because just as you said only God can do that. But it is spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ as He instructed us to do before He ascended to heaven.

I'll say it, with all due respect...Sex before marriage is called fornication and it is a sin.

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Re: Physical and Spiritual Needs

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