How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

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How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by seekingface09 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:05 am

I am asking for prayer because I need clarity. I know that God is not the author of confusion concerning the ministry I am in. I have an uneasiness in my spirit. I am restless. I wonder how much authority does God gives a pastor over the congregation? I am not trying to be messy. I have a sincere request. I am going to post this for discussion. Thank you

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Dove-Solutions on Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:42 am

Seekingface09,

I totally understand the question. I believe that we have very little authority over the church. Now by that I mean that I believe that God has all of the authority in the Church. We, those of us who are in leadership are but the vessel to share God's word with the people. We are there to set the example. All power and authority belong to him. I believe we can call on his power and his authority to do the work that He has called for us to do. We are held to a higher accountability for their salvation and spiritual condition but I just never thought of having authority over them. These are just my thoughts. I hope they help.

Love in Jesus,

Connie

PS Awesome question to ponder on by the by.


~Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Himand He will direct your path.~ Proverbs 3:5-6

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Cholette on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:24 am

I agree with Connie. I would also like to add that when a Pastor tries to have "power" over a congregation, then he's after control. At that point it becomes bondage. This seems to be happening a lot these days. I see pastors coming up with their own "do's and don't" lists and it becomes their OWN doctrine and not according to the Word of God.

I would say to you that if you are uneasy and restless, you need to be in prayer to see what God desires for you to do. God doesn't want us in bondage because He sent His Son Jesus so we would be free. I went through something like this recently and I've received my walking papers from God to leave. I haven't left yet because I'm finishing up a committment however my life is filled with peace now that I know God has another church for me to worship in.

Blessings to you...

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Virtuous on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:32 am

What specific area of authority are you talking about?

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by seekingface09 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:56 am

well, I started becoming uncomfortable. i been here for several years. I do feel a sort of bondage. To give an example, oftentimes the congregation is told that they better do everything that the Pastor is saying, because he is hearing straight from God. The pastor is gifted in the prophetic and flows fluently. No accountability except for God. Controls everything, we are basically told certain things we have to do. This person is a great person, not bad at all. They are giving and all. A lot of the prophetis comes to pass. When I say how much control does God give man? Would God give man so much control that the only way that people can come out is by obeying something some one else says. This person claims to have more revelation...I am so confused, because I have been told that if we even question the authority God would deal with us. This person talks about money a lot. Told us to double our tithes..If we don't pay tithes we go through hell and high water, and we basically can not serve. An array of things. When I come around, I feel that God is going to show him how I am feeling and that I am questioning some things, because it is like "God shows him everything!!!" and I feel so scared when I am around, or afraid that I will mess up. I feel bad when I don't give enough...

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by seekingface09 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:07 am

I have had a lot of great teaching from this person. When members leave-and they just leave...it seems as though they go through bad things. On one hand I feel okay, but then on the other hand I am worried. This is bothering me. Please pray with me. I would never put my mouth on this person because I believe that he is a God sent man. I am sometimes reminded that "I can go behind the veil for myself". I had a dream the other week- 1 was I was told by the Pastor- I was sitting in the congregation and I was told "eventually you will leave". Then I dreamed about 2 nights later that I was the Pastor's mistress. I could hear "Woe is the one.... couldn't understand, but it was like a warning. I couldn't put it together. About 2 nights ago I dreamed of dogs coming after me--the pastor had unleash the dogs to clean the house. I also dream of someone forcing me to drink dirty pond water with tadpoles in it. I could taste the water. I ran to a higher place and the dog, a rottweiler jumped up almost to my level. I ran upstairs to warn others and the same man that tried to make me drink the water, tried to do it again, and told me to be quiet before I wake the baby....Please help. Keep me in prayer.

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Dove-Solutions on Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:45 am

Seekingface09,

Let me first start by saying this. What I say, I say in love so please understand that it is because I want you to be free that I tell you this. You said you have a lot of good teaching from this person (church) but I think the Lord is showing you that you don't. First and foremost about tithe. This is a much debated issue in the church. The church is not suppose to put demands on your tithe and offering. We are to teach you the truth about tithe and offering and then what you give for tithe or offering is between you and your Father in heaven. The word teaches us to give. Tithe is under the old law and Jesus fulfilled that law. We are to give of our time, talent and our treasure. Do you not think our heavenly Father knows our situation? We live under grace not under the law! Don't let others put you under the law. If we live by the law we die by the law. If we live in grace we die in grace. The word says that if we break one law we have broken them all. That is why Jesus died for us. That grace covers us because we cannot live by the law. And he fulfilled the law for us and took the curse of law upon himself so that we could be free. Am I making any sense? What I am trying to say is that if someone teaches incorrectly about that.....what else are they teaching me? The Lord says to study for yourself the word. Ask the Father what he wants you to do regarding tithe and offering. I think you will be surprised by what you find. You may eventually leave the church because the truth will be revealed to you and there will be a peace about leaving. He is showing you that things may not be as they appear and to take notice and act accordingly. I pray I have been of help to sort this out. I do not interpret but give my thoughts as lead of the Holy Spirit. We give and understand only in part. Please pray on what I have said.

Love in Jesus,

Connie


~Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Himand He will direct your path.~ Proverbs 3:5-6

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Virtuous on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:53 am

This is how I feel about it. Again, I can only speak for myself...

I obey my earthly spiritual authority. I follow my earthly spiritual authority (Pastor) AS she follow Christ. I don't do it because I'm told I better do it. I do it because God has placed me under her authority as my spiritual earthly shepherd. It's not so much that I obey everything "she" says. But I try to obey everything about living for Jesus she preaches through the word of God...even then, I read and learn the word for myself.
Would God give man so much control that the only way that people can come out is by obeying something some one else says.
I don't agree with this. If this were the case, Jesus is a lie when he said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the father but by me" John 14:6... And we all know that He is not a liar.
Told us to double our tithes..If we don't pay tithes we go through hell and high water, and we basically can not serve
I hope this was only a suggestion/challenge. My Pastor pays double tithes because God placed it on HER heart to do so. Through her obedience, He has truly blessed her and the church tremendously. It's not even about the money she's sowing. It's about her obedience and her faith to trust in God. She shared with us what she was doing and told us to stretch our faith if God led us to do so. She told us NOT to do it if God wasn't in it and we didn't have the faith to back it up. I am a faithful tithe payer and as much as I wanted to try it and try God at His word...my faith is NOT there yet...DOUBLE?!
I feel bad when I don't give enough...
I know what you mean. I used to feel the same way. But you have to remember that if you give cheerfully out of what you have (I don't care if it's a penny [a mite]), it's more than enough. Think about the times you had and did give what you desired to give. If you're feeling bad because "man" says you're not giving enough; you're allowing condemnation to overtake you. If you're feeling bad because God has asked you to give a certain amount and you don't; you're being convicted out of disobedience and lack of faith. Don't get the two confused. In conviction, all it takes is Godly sorrow that leads to Godly repentance and God will ALWAYS give you another chance.

You're doing the right thing by NOT putting your mouth on your Pastor. All you can do is pray for him.

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by butterfly on Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:01 pm

In my opinion I think that the church has utterly abused the whole tithing thing. Why is it always emphasied that we should give in order to get a blessing. Doesn't that encourage people to be selfish and encourage them to give only so they can get something back in return.

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Virtuous on Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:18 pm

I just wonder WHY there's so much controversy when it comes to paying tithes. The church is the only place where people question giving money. I haven't been taught nor have I ever read in the Word, that I should give in order to get a blessing. Nor do I pay my tithes in order to keep from being cursed with a curse. Paying tithes has always been a hair-raiser and I absolutely don't get it...

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Cholette on Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:41 pm

Virtuous, I think it's always a "hair-raiser" because there are so many churches who put SO MUCH emphasis on it to scare people into obedience. I think people would tithe and give when they are not pressured. The moment my pastor stopped pressuring, the tithes and offerings accelerated. When the pulpit takes their focus off of money and TEACH the people, then it gives the Holy Spirit the opporutnity to deal with people accordingly....


Do not fight FOR victory, but fight FROM THE PLACE of victory. Jesus has ALREADY won the battle!

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Virtuous on Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:22 pm

Cholette, I hear you.

We all know that scaring people to be obedient does not work. Children prove that to parents everyday.

Do you/we feel pressured when asked to do something you/we don't want to do or do something you/we want to do?

We do what we want to do. I didn't want to stop smoking weed/drinking/clubbing/having sex/fighting - so guess what? I didn't want to hear it and at the time that's all it seemed to be coming across the pulpit. So it had to be at least one time that all of the teaching I heard settled in my heart and took root. Did I feel pressured to stop doing all of it when it came across the pulpit? No. I was feeling convicted and I didn't like it because I didn't want to stop.

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by dreamster on Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:52 pm

um let peace be ur umpiere,,,um paul said 2 peter on 3 things tha gentiles shood do absatain frm meat offered 2 idols,sexual impurity,tasteing blood,,..giving isa choice,,


a merry heart, does good likea medicene, [ new international dee version,NIDV]

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Dove-Solutions on Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:11 pm

The hair raiser for me is that if I am being taught wrong about tithe and offering what else are they teaching that is not sound doctrine. What about the other part of the subject such as bulling people into tithing and telling them they can not serve if they don't. That is totally teaching wrong. Jesus did not set those conditions for teaching the word of God. There are churches so legalistic that it causes many to fall away from the faith or not attend church. It is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.

The word says we are to be prepared in season and out of season. It also says that people will believe what they want and not adhere to sound doctrine but will hire those who will give their itching ears what they want to hear. It also says that we should stand firm in our faith and endure affliction and teach with all long suffering. We need to stand on the word of truth and not let someone add more to the word or take away from the word of God.

Just my thoughts,

Connie


~Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Himand He will direct your path.~ Proverbs 3:5-6

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by hind'sfeet on Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:28 pm

Dove, I'm also from Oklahoma, Norman specifically. I have been on a quest for the truth for the past 11 years. There is so much tradition in Oklahoma that really hinders knowing who Yahweh, and Jesus really are, and what grace is truly about. Oklahoman's are tough minded and it takes a real miracle from God to get them to see that what they are teaching in church is not all from God.

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Cholette on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:16 pm

V...that's what I'm saying. You didn't feel pressured, but the Holy Spirit had the opportunity to deal with you inwardly and that caused you to do what needed to be done with your life.

Money is a HUGE topic in the church...HUGE!!! When the people are told over and over and over again that they won't be blessed if they don't do this and don't do that...it causes condemnation. Condemnation KILLS...it causes people to run away from God instead of running towards Him. They run away because of feeling ashamed. Pastors should just teach what the Bible says and move on. It's the HOLY SPIRIT'S duty to correct and to straighten us out...the same way He did you...he took the desire away.

Do you/we feel pressured when asked to do something you/we don't want to do or do something you/we want to do?

When a person, including myself, is NOT in a place to understand certain things and have NOT been dealt with by the Holy Spirit to do certain things...it WON'T happen. Each person is in their own place in God. When the Pastor teaches, it's the Holy Spirit's job to take that Word that has been spoken and inspired by HIM and take it to the areas in the individuals and mature them. We can't determine where a person should be or what they SHOULD BE doing...that's God's job. When we start looking at people and saying they should be doing this and doing that or else...then we have puffed ourselves up to be something we were never intended to be. Of course, this is just my opinion.

I think each person should be in the Word of God for themselves. There is a way to be humbled and submitted to authority without being controlled are feel drawn to do EVERY single thing the pulpit commands us to do. How else would we be able to follow leadership as they follow Christ if we don't know what Christ has done?


Do not fight FOR victory, but fight FROM THE PLACE of victory. Jesus has ALREADY won the battle!

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by seekingface09 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:53 am

I can tell that this is an issue that has been dealt with before. I would like to ask you to take a look at a dream I posted in Dream Interpretation. It is titled Dogs and Pond water - I think. This is another reason I wanted prayer. Oftentimes people are hurt from leadership in the church, and they are wounded sheep. They speak against authority in the church and they drop out. I believe that this is a case where God is showing me that no man is perfect, and His word says, it is better to obey God, and not man. This is where I will have to truly lean and depend on God as I walk closely with this person-or the next person. I believe if I was close to either of you, I would find something that I disagreed with...as you would do the same for me. I think this is a one on one with God and me. I do love to hear your input. I continue to solicit your unbiased counsel and prayers-not of feelings-but Godly wisdom founded upon the word of God. Thank you as always, it is a pleasure. Be blessed.


Last edited by seekingface09 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wanted to correct mistakes)

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by seekingface09 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:58 am

The dream interpretaion is Dogs and Unclear water-posted by seekinghisface09.

Thanks

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Dove-Solutions on Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:18 am

I will take a look and I totally agree with your synopsus of the whole situation. I was there before I found my church I am at now. \

God bless,

Connie


~Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Himand He will direct your path.~ Proverbs 3:5-6

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by iminhiswill~ on Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:27 pm

Dear Seekingface09~

I too have been in a very similar situation in my life... The Pastor and his ministry was abusive and corrupt... I was having all sorts of dreams about things happening to me and the Pastor would allow.. I sought wise counsel and after serving 4 years. I left.. the ministry was very abusive.. the Pastor had all the answers, yet would allow ungodly things to fester and taint the ministry.. He was a man operating out of the order of God's will for the church.. no im not exposing him or talking about him, facts are facts and I just know that Jesus didn't die for us to remain under the law and in bondage to man's leglaistic rules and regulations...please do a research in the search engine about signs of manipulation and abuse in the church..signs of a false prophet, and how do you discern when to leave a church... seekingface09,im praying even now that the Lord will lead you to a place where you are free from bondage and witchcraft the ministry is surely operating in.. my bible says, "he whom the son has set free, is free indeed" the Lord is surely opening your eyes to deceit and falsehood in this ministry.....Your having a dream you are his mistress signals the closeness you have with him in ministry..a mistress is the other woman outside of a wife naturally but spiritually you're the sidekick he uses as a support person to cover him and his error..because afterall if you're still there, why would anyone question his integrity and authority...hmmm..which is a sign of danger and could also very well be the reason you're apprehensive to leaving or questioning his authority.. ask yourself a few questions, the people who've left the ministry, are the successful that you know of, do they seem happy and free...your giving the double tithe-do you and your family benefit from it at all? are you in lack most of time? if tithing is suppose to do all the Pastor says it will do, in your time of being there how much of the reaping has he had and have you had? Pastors are not "more" than any lay member nor another ministry leader, so therefore, you should prosper and be in good health as well.. they don't get more than the next person because they're the authority figure...Another thing to consider and question.... how is it that he can have all the answers and not to submit to any other leadership in the body for support and effectively continue to lead and make the same demands from his congregation? NOt possible.. We all must give an account to one another.. no one person has all the answers even if he or she is called to the office of a prophet.. even they are subjected to the prophets...It is truly my prayer that you break free from the bondage of the ministry and be who the Lord has called you to be.. FYI,Bishop George Bloomer has a book called, "Authority Abusers", Witchcraft in the Church and Witchcraft in the Pulpit.. If you are able to get these books, they'll bless your life... God bless you and take care~

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Dove-Solutions on Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:31 pm

Well hey there Hinds Feet! I'm in Oklahoma City. We should meet up for lunch some time. That would be awesome. It is such a small world yes.

Love in Jesus,

Connie


~Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Himand He will direct your path.~ Proverbs 3:5-6

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by Virtuous on Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:43 pm

I think there's a fine line between feeling pressured and conviction, and actually knowing the difference.

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Re: How much power does God gives Pastors over congregation?

Post by hind'sfeet on Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:37 pm

Hey Dove, I would love to, but, I'm not actually in Oklahoma. I was born and raised there and when I go home that's where I go.
I'll let you know when I go to visit again and then we can get coffee!

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