What to do...

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What to do...

Post by 2livisChrist on Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:21 pm

I have only been with my church since a year ago Easter. During last summer I went to read my church news on line and above it was a web sight from Kansas City Starr blasting my pastor. I went to it and started to uphold the bad things being stated. After a while some things began to make me question a little and I started to wonder if some of things being said could be true.
Then one evening when I went in to facilitate a depression/anxiety group at church one of the pastors who leads the comfort groups, said he needed to talk with me. He was kind but said they (the head Pastor, and the security, FBI, etc.) were monitoring the web sight by KCStarr and they knew I had become involved in the discussion. I was shocked that they were watching it but he said some threats on the pastor and his family (they think) are coming from the person or persons heading this websight. KCstarr does not do it but had published an attack on the church and pastor that was being used to fuel the fire by who ever leads this particular web sight.
I was so embarrassed and upset, crying and not sure what to say or do. He said he (and the rest) believed that I had gotten pulled in by accident and that I was not a potential threat to the pastor and church....Thank the good Lord! I promised to never go back to the sight. He said they suspected that others who had left but that their names were being used by the one or two who write up everything and make it look like a whole lot of people when it is not. So he left me figuring they would use my idenity. I asked about removing my name and info but he said it was not needed.
I had two different times after my group meeting that I know that a car pulled out of the church parking lot and followed me home..I live about 20-25 min. away in a smaller town. I ditched one by acting like I was going to suddenly turn into Sonic...I drove through and watched the van turn at the next street. I went another block to the light and sure enough, there came the van and it hardly stopped at the four-way light, but dashed through and kept going( this is the highway that returns to KC). This happened one more time but with a different car. I passed some cars after getting onto the highway and noticed a car that had been following me from the light at the church exit was passing too. I pulled in with traffic and it lingered in the passing lane. I finally slowed down as the car behind me exited. The suspect car slowed down and pulled in behind another car that was quickly coming up behind me. I let that car pass me and I speed up again. The car also speed up and it was a back and forth thing all the way to the exit before mine. That car exited...BUT it went up the exit ramp, waited a moment and came down the on ramp behind a couple cars in back of me. It followed me off my exit. As the light changed instead of me staying in the center lane I slowed down and went to the outer lane. The car lagged behind in the center lane. I poked along and finally a couple of blocks into town it made a quick left turn (no signal, just turned). I could not give a license number or a clear identity of the car and decided it would not be of help to go to the police. Why I was followed I don't know. Or by whom I have no idea. I wondered if it was security from church or someone from the web sight...it was frightening but I was afraid to tell my husband since he goes to another church and he would just have forbidden me to continue with the Comfort Circles. I was upset but knew God was watching over me.
The art group had asked me to help them right at first and I did twice. But after everything happened they dropped me like a hot potato. Even the head usher jumped me about being on the web sight. I had to explain that it was a terrible misunderstanding and that I no longer was involved in it.
Well months have gone by but at different times I get the strongest impression that the ones in the know, are watching me. That I am not really trusted. Some other jobs around the church that I have offered to lend my help with have never accepted me or given me a word back. This is a church begun by a couple and now their children help preach too and run everything.
The classroom my group meets in has a device on the counter that says it is a wireless internet device and the tv usually has a slight back lite to it... like it did not turn off completely. It makes me wonder if they are listening in to my group to be sure of what I say or do. This is upsetting too because every who attends the group is asked to sign a promise to not discuss what is said in the group. I am so hurt and upset and I have never been mistrusted in a church before or in any other setting. I have no criminal back ground other than a speeding ticket from twenty years ago. I have worked as a Para Ed. for Special Ed. for seven years. And was a stay at home mom before starting to work.
Recently the church was doing baptisms and they said a rededication could be done. So I asked to rededicate my life to Christ. The head Pastor did my baptism (maybe it was just me, but he seem nervous and asked me twice how to pronounce my last name). I had thought it was going to be the associate pastor whom I work with in Comfort Circles, to baptise me. Anyway the following Sunday evening after church I took Pastor and his wife one of my pen and ink drawings of a crosses (actually I gave one to each of them) and pastor hardly said thank you and I have not heard another word from him or his wife about the drawings. I spend hours doing these and was hurt that they meant so little to them.
I sometimes feel like I should leave if they don't trust me, like me, or want me there. It is a huge mega church.On the other hand I know that I know that I know that God took me there and told me to join that church over a year ago back. But God has shown me so many things in church's he has placed me in that I would never have learned or seen if he had kept me in just one.
They have great pastors and great teachings...up to date current event type along with regular Bible study. But is it all worth it to be made to feel less than accepted and trusted. Please help me. I will be happy to answer any questions. I know this all sounds very strange and I don't speak of these things except to my daughter. Thank you, Pat, in KS
2livisChrist


Last edited by 2livisChrist on Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additions and correction of spelling)

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Re: What to do...

Post by Jadams on Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:56 am

Pat, it's time to go sweety. This sounds like a gang or a mafia (no disrespect). You have to understand that church is a place where you go to worship the Lord and learn about Him...not look over your shoulder and wonder who's watching you. The fact that these things were written about your pastor and then the way they react over a website instead of TRUSTING GOD for vindication (if necessary) tells me that something may be to the story (not saying for sure that it is) . They are passing info around about you. What in the world is that all about?

I'm trying to figure out why you went back after you were confronted about going on the website. That was out of order and down right tacky. The van following you was the deal breaker. It doesn't matter who it was, that church would have NEVER seen my face again.

You and your husband are one. Let go of the pride and tell him what is going on and go to the police and file a report if you still feel like you are being followed. If you have a cell phone, you should be calling the police anytime you feel threatened or followed.

God gives us wisdom and discernment for a reason. It sounds like your season in that church is over. I know of plenty of pastors who have been slandered in the media however they continue on in the call that God has given to them...not worry about the menial things like what member is visting what site. You are in America...you have the right to go on any site you desire. It's time to Go...really...IT'S TIME TO GO!!!!!!!

Just my opinon!!

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Re: What to do...

Post by 2livisChrist on Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:07 pm

Thank you Jadams, for taking your time to read my long post and give your heart felt advice.
Here is another one that just happen...I signed up to help with crafts, snacks, registration, for bible school. I did not hear any thing and assumed my help was not needed. Two days before I get an email (went to many on the pastor of children's church email) asking for help. So I emailed that I would help. He put me with him wife and the 5 year olds (this was fine with me). I asked what time to be there (started at 9:00) and was told 8:30. Well I was late by eight min. but everyone was already in classrooms or at the sign up table, game area, snack room, etc...the clinker was everyone had on the matching shirts AND name tags and had ovibously been there longer than eight min...I asked for just a name tag and was told they had no more!
I helped for about 30 min. and once the children were checked in everyone went to their next post...you got it....I had not a clue where to head to to help...I picked up my purse and I left. I did not go back all week and no one asked me anything about why I left or why I was not there the rest of the week.
God has really blessed my depression/anxiety group and I love these people very much. Through God's provisions we have seen a number of break throughts. With some returning just to lend support to the other memebers and to help pray for everyone. This is my ministry, my calling and I stay through the other weird things so I can keep facilitating this group for God.
They recently moved it to Sunday nights from Monday evenings. It is not working for any of the groups. I recently gave reasons why my people think it is a bad time to have it to the pastor who leads these groups. I asked how this change to help save on pastors being away from home another night, and save on the electric bill, and security people, etc., actually is being helping if it does not lend itself well to help those who are hurting and needing Gods help.
He said they are praying about and trying to decide what to do.
It truly is not pride that keeps me from telling my husband. It is the fact that he belongs to a church that I and my children came out of and we are all born again now. My husband has been in this church of his since birth. We pray for God to bring him out too. We don't want anything about my church(or any church that is not of his) to cause him to think he is just as well off in his church.
The part I mentioned about the tv looking like it is on...I forgot to say that even though this is a Christian school classroom within the church, the school is closed for the summer. This room is used for a Bible study on Sunday mornings but they don't use the tv...beside it was this way when we still met on Mon. evenings. It just seems weird.
Thanks again for your respons and for not thinking I am nuts!

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Re: What to do...

Post by newleaf on Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:23 am

My pastor lied to me. Upset, I called a prayer line and was then
told by a man of God the truth about my pastor whom I loved like a dad. I told the deacons who did nothing didnt get him help he needed.They may have idolized him. I confronted him as did my husband.His sins were eventually found out.We had to leave and the church split.
God intervened when man didnt do the right thing and
He is barred from the country due to IRS crimes.

Im telling you this b/c if this if your pastor is not a man you want to be with you in a moment of crisis-then get out.
This is not of God!
I dont know that I would give the enemy fuel to the fire with your husband him not being saved-pray about finding a new church. You are not wrong here.

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Re: What to do...

Post by 2livisChrist on Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:14 am

Thank you justblueskies for explaining you situation. When you mentioned the part about,'if your pastor is not a man you want to be with you in a moment of crisis", NOW that hit me hard. No I would not think to call him. I would go to the pastor who leads the Comfort circles before I would think to call and ask for help from the pastor himself. That is really sad but in reality it is true.
You and Jadmas have been so kind and given me the support I need to do what I have to do.
My son attends this church but does not see or know of all of the events I have shared with you. But he is moving out of town soon. He was another reason I stayed there.
I will make an appointment to visit with the pastor I work with to explain why I am leaving and that he needs to find a facilitator for the depression/anxiety group.
My heart is heavy for I will miss some friends there and one family came there because of myself and son attending there. I did share with my friend my recent attempt to give my art work to the Pastor and his wife and nothing was ever mentioned about it. She was very surprised.
Well, I do believe your note gave a final release to the way I was feeling about moving on. God has shown me a lot and enabled me to minister to a good many people there. I am blessed. I know He was just letting me work things out mentally and emotionally to take that step away from this church.
Thank you again for your help. I feel good now about leaving. May Father God bless you and everyone here with his great love, wisdom, strength and joy inside of each person. Praying this in Jesus name. Amen
Pat


Last edited by 2livisChrist on Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add on)

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Re: What to do...

Post by Virtuous on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:55 am

If you feel there is a problem with your pastor; you need to take it to God and only God. He is the only person who can do anything with your Pastor...the only ONE.

Things are not as simplistic in dealing with Pastors as we may think or would like them to be. You have to be very cautious regardless of if you feel you're right about whatever is going on. Please...take it to God...all of it.

We all can tell you that you should leave because of what you've shared. Only God can tell you that. I would say it myself. But from experience; I'm advising you to make sure and settle it with God before you leave. Get authorization and a release from God before you leave.

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Re: What to do...

Post by 2livisChrist on Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:01 am

Thank you Virtuous, for your helpful reply. Sorry it took me a while to get back here since I was out of town helping our son look for an apartment.
I appreciate what you said and I do plan on asking the pastor I work with to visit with me. Then we will see about taking it to the head pastor.
In my talks with God about leaving I did not feel rushed to do so. But I do believe God, has once again used this church and head pastor to teeah me.
I am actually beginning to look forward to searching out a new church with the Lord's help.
Thank you to you and again to the others for letting me walk through it in open discussion, while calling upon God to be the final answer. It helped to have all the good input and advice. I have been greatly blessed by all of you for your understanding and support.
Our God is so good to us!
Pat

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Re: What to do...

Post by True Flight on Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:07 pm

I don't believe for one moment that the FBI was ever involved, my experience in this area spans 30 years.

Anoint your husband's pillow each night, and pray that he may hear Gods truth as he sleeps.
I can never find it in the Bible when I want, I think its because of translations. But There is a place where the Bible says "I will save you and your whole family".
I stood on that word and my whole family is saved.

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Re: What to do...

Post by 2livisChrist on Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:26 pm

True Flight,
If what you just told me is true, then it really sickens me. They had me scared that I could have been apart of something I knew nothing about concerning "possible," threats on the pastors life.
I missed going to church this AM with my fibromyalgia and degenerating back causing pain. But went this evening and they had a man there talking about a system they have gotten involved with using the internet to talk to people who acccept Christ....those responding would be called "missionaries" and would help those seeking Christ to direct them to help. I guess they had a meeting at lunch today and those interested went then. Then they began to talk about this project and request people to sign up if they were interested. I signed up...let's wait and see if they respond to me.
Thank you, Pat

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Re: What to do...

Post by HisLightbeam on Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:52 pm

2livischrist, we are not meant to be looking over our shoulders. We are more than conquerors through Him that loves us. Consider this-there are churchs that get out of hand in leadership, making war with the children, instead of with the enemy. But consider
Psalm 144


Of David.

1 Praise be to the LORD my Rock,
who trains my hands for war,
my fingers for battle.
2 He is my loving God and my fortress,
my stronghold and my deliverer,
my shield, in whom I take refuge,
who subdues peoples [a] under me.
3 O LORD, what is man that you care for him,
the son of man that you think of him?
4 Man is like a breath;
his days are like a fleeting shadow.
5 Part your heavens, O LORD, and come down;
touch the mountains, so that they smoke.
6 Send forth lightning and scatter {the enemies};
shoot your arrows and rout them.
7 Reach down your hand from on high;
deliver me and rescue me
from the mighty waters,
from the hands of foreigners

8 whose mouths are full of lies,
whose right hands are deceitful.

9 I will sing a new song to you, O God;
on the ten-stringed lyre I will make music to you,
10 to the One who gives victory to kings,
who delivers his servant David from the deadly sword.
11 Deliver me and rescue me
from the hands of foreigners
whose mouths are full of lies,
whose right hands are deceitful.
12 Then our sons in their youth
will be like well-nurtured plants,
and our daughters will be like pillars
carved to adorn a palace.
13 Our barns will be filled
with every kind of provision.
Our sheep will increase by thousands,
by tens of thousands in our fields;
14 our oxen will draw heavy loads. [b]
There will be no breaching of walls,
no going into captivity,
no cry of distress in our streets.
15 Blessed are the people of whom this is true;
blessed are the people whose God is the LORD.


Be cautious, but don't worry. When God has plans for your life, and you have faith in Him, and are working out that faith in obedience to Him, He will cover you and be a Rock in a weary land, and a shelter in time of storm. So, you made a mistake. You apologized and repented before Father. Everyone makes mistakes. Little birds run and tell things that are whispered in secret. What matters is that you tried to correct the situation, but now God has to work things out. And it will work out for your good, but do not be afraid or dismayed, because if Father is with you, then you have more for you than the people that feel that they need to be against you. Maybe it is time for you to feel God out on whether it is time to seek another church, dear, or whether you should weather the storm right where you are. I know how it is to be pursued by the enemy who uses people to do his grudge work. But I also know how it is to be rescued by the Mighty God, the Lord Strong and Mighty, the Lord Mighty in battle. happy dance Ifeel like His cheerleader! Hallelujah, bless the Lord o my soul and all that is within me. Keep praising Him and blessing His name, and give God the Glory, for He can and will deliver you. It is not His will that this situation to oppress you, but for you to shine that righteousness like the noon day sun, and show forth His praises, and show that Christ in you, that righteous priesthood, filled with dignity and humility in God. Show Jesus. Praise is your weapon and it is sharp!!! praiseGod I am being realistic here, because we know not to trust in "horses, men, and princes" because these can fail you. Practically, do a police report, but have a license plate, and possible description, and the number of times each car has followed you as well, camera shots, and video tape are real helpful too, buuuuuuttt...they are only creatures hand-made. Don't expect too much from them. God is the first and the last, the being and the end, the alpha and the omega. He can never fail you.

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Re: What to do...

Post by 2livisChrist on Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:33 pm

Hislightbeam, thank you for your suggestions and I love Psalm 144. It is funny how you know things and can give advice to others but when it comes to yourself then reminders from others light up. Then you have to say, "I Knew That"! I will continue to praise God...thanks for including that...he is good and wonderful and he carries my so often and I am so grateful.
As I sat in evening church and looked around at the empty seats the question of "why", why are they empty, Lord. They should be filled with the saints wanting to learn and mature in Christ Jesus and the Word of God our Father.
I had planned to ask the pastor I work the most with covering Comfort Circles, for an appointment to visit with him with my concerns. But he was not there this evening. I will have to call the church tomorrow and set up an appointment.
I just feel like such a complainer. I don't want to be asked to help with anything I had previously signed up to do but was never called on to help. Now that I have decided to leave I would not want to be offered something if they thought they needed to give me something to keep me happy or from leaving and saying anything against them. I know better than to say anything about all of these things in a public way. I would rather let bygones be bygones.

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Re: What to do...

Post by Guest on Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:49 am

Hello! I haven't ready anyone else's comment, but I had only one thing come up in my heart as I read your post: That is that you really need to let your husband in on what's going on, and trust that he hears from God, and allow him to protect you and lead you. God's role for your husband is one of protection, and even if you do not think he does the job as well as he should, if you will honor the authority that God has invested in your husband, God will use him to lead you, guide you, and protect you through this season. It's important as a wife, that you get up under the wing of your husband's protection. I think it is very unsafe for your husband not to be aware of what is going on with you. I would also take any and all advice he gives you and follow his leading, because even if he is wrong, if you do that, God will make it right because you are in obedience to His Word that says, "wives submit to your husbands." I've been married 12 years myself, so I am speaking from a place of experience, but also am speaking from the standpoint of the Word of God! I believe if you will be open with your husband, the rest will take care of itself.

Blessings,

Sandra

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Re: What to do...

Post by 2livisChrist on Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:29 pm

Thank you Sandra,
It is funny how my day has worked around a close spiritural friend coming to visit and we shared a lot but I did not share this with her. But God worked through in her thoughts that she is not spending enough "quality" time with the Lord (she is single and works two jobs right now and is truly missing her quiet time with God).
I just felt like the Holy Spirit was guiding me to come and look at the email I had not checked all day. And here was your response...I sat and re-read everyone's wonderfully and spiriturally fulfilling words of help for me.
I stand convicted. You are right in that I should share with my husband everything I shared with all of you. I must trust that God will work thrugh him by my submitting to his guidance on this. He has liked the pastor there on the few occasions he has attened with my son and myself.
Thank you so much for your words of wisdom too.
Again, I appreciate everyone who has responded and I feel truly blessed with good advice.
God's joy to you, Pat

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Re: What to do...

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