Is it wrong to treat people this way

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Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Freeprincess on Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:23 pm

Hi, I would really, really appreciate your input on these two questions.

Is it wrong to tell someone that you will not get into a relationship with them unless they press into the Lord, get a deliverance from rejection and self hatred?

Is it wrong to secretly gather with certain people upon the justification that they are pressing closer to God than others that you exclude? Justifying it on the basis that Jesus himself had the 12 disciples and even among them he only picked a few of those to come up to the mount of transformation and had his "favorite" who was "the disciple Jesus loved." (those who I am referring to picking only certain people are leaders).

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by TheWhiteShadow on Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:23 pm

Hello, Freeprincess -

This is just my own thinking on your first question: I don't think that it's wrong to not enter into a relationship with someone based upon what you listed as reasons...in a way. When you decide to enter a relationship, you also get any baggage that they have. If they have issues with self-hatred and rejection, and you do not want to deal with those things, you are justified in not wanting to have the relationship. There's also nothing wrong with telling them this, either - provided you can do so in a loving way. No one likes rejection, so there's no guarrantee that they'll receive your reasons. But, to put it bluntly, that's really their problem!

That being said, you may want to be sensitive to how you say these things. It's a tricky thing to tell someone that a relationship might be possible IF they take care of this or that. You run a risk of them ACTING, rather than having a genuine change. Personally, it's better off leaving them to the Lord to deal with their issues than setting an expectation before them that they may try to meet for the wrong reasons - i.e., a relationship with you. I hope that makes sense.

For the second question (also my opinion), I don't believe that such a meeting is wrong on its own. There is wisdom in assembling together with those who are like-minded and are of similar maturity. Sharing the same vision with others brings many positive elements to a meeting - same expectations, level of committment, understanding, etc. The big "however" for this one is that it's important to not slip into a clique-mentality, being careful to be inclusive to newcomers who share the same vision; be on guard about exclusion of those who really would belong.

If God is blessing these meetings with growth, recognize that and adapt the format to fit larger groups or vary those involved. If it becomes too large, consider multiple, smaller meetings or break into smaller groups that meeting in a large-group setting on a less-frequent basis. This stuff may be a no-brainer.

If the meeting has a spirit of exclusivity or elitism, consider not being involved with such a thing.

Just my opinions.
Blessings,
-Mark

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Daisy on Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:57 pm

Please know the following are only my thoughts and opinions. Please pray on anything I say.

I LOVE ALL Marks thoughts! I especially like and agree with the part about someone possibly ACTING to be in a relationship with you as you share expectations. I would think it might be better to keep those expectations to yourself, and even pray about it, but then the fruit that you see from that person wouldn't be with the wrong motivation...and more likely to remain.

I also especially like what Mark said about being on guard for a clique mentality. But I also DO NOT think its wrong to have and to maintain close/intimate relationships within the body of Christ. I think if its an actual church function..everyone should feel included and the love of Christ should make room for others. On the same note though~you shouldn't feel like you have to invite the whole church to go out to have a nice fun night. I do feel like God will give us wisdom regarding WHO to let into our inner circle...whom we can share our most private and intimate details of our lives with. It's also impossible to be close with everyone, as there is only so much time in one day. I think what I am trying to say here is to have a healthy balance between making time for close relationships, but also in church gatherings not being exclusive towards others, still being sensitive and inclusive toward others...making room for body ministry.


Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Daisy on Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:11 pm

I think I do see what your saying though...if you are wanting to be able to fellowship with like-minded people, who are on a similar level spiritually...where you can just have deep spiritual conversations with, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. A baby christian might not understand some of the deep things of God yet. I think there are times with close friends, then there are times of fellowship with aquaintances, and other times when those who are mature in the Lord should be ready to pour out and reach out to those who are younger in the Lord as them (without putting them into their inner circle, so to say). One is intimate fellowship, one is casual fellowship, and the other is ministry (even if it has a casual feel to it, we can minister just by living a life of love). It's a easy line to blur at times. I think we need all three. Just my thoughts...


Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Cholette on Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:53 pm

I'm sorry...I haven't read the prior responses because I'm in a rush. If I repeat anything that has already been said, I apologize. I wanted to give you another perspective to your question. Let's flip the situation around. When you were in phases of your life when things weren't quite on fire and you were dealing with issues, how would you feel if someone didn't want to be around you because you didn't have the wherewithall to Press In Deeper to God?

We have to be very careful in sounding judgemental. We are all in different places in God and one of our calls is to be a light to the darkness around us. You could be this person's example to pressing in, but if you remove yourself, who would they have to help in that journey? Our job is to bring Jesus to a dying world...not leave them behind and tell them to work it out and press deeper.

I would say to you to pray more on this issue. Don't walk away right now. I'm GRATEFUL for those that were in my life during the times I needed God the most. I didn't know what to do in most of the cases, but having their ministry and encouragment was what I needed.

I know you used the example of Jesus only taking two with him to the mountain, but don't forget the woman with the issue of blood (her condition caused her to be ostercized from society)...Mary Magdalene (she was a prostitute and was judged)...Zaccheus (he was stealing the taxes and spending it on himself). All these people, Jesus engaged himself with to show others NOT to judge and that he wasn't above anyone.

Praying this helps...blessings


Do not fight FOR victory, but fight FROM THE PLACE of victory. Jesus has ALREADY won the battle!

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Freeprincess on Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:20 pm

Hi Cholette...actually the situation is flipped. I am the person people are excluding and had two people tell me they wouldn't get into a relationship with me unless I did A,B and C. It is exactly like you say: they don't want to be around me because I'm not in the same place they are to "press into God". To me they are being judgemental. Right now even though I want help and have wanted it...I feel they haven't seen that I have or given me credit to what I have done to "press in". I also do not trust them much anymore and sure don't feel like opening my jugular vein up to them. thank you so much for your validating comments. I appreciate the other comments as well. they helped me see different perspectives.

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Daisy on Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:27 pm

O I am so super sorry freeprincess. That really really stinks. How it was handled is def not the heart of God. i\\'m sorry


Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Daisy on Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:32 pm

Nobody is any better than you! I pray that God will send you good/inclusive people into your path so that you can feel that closeness that you desire to have in the body of Christ.You should have people in your life that love you for exactly who God made you to be. Once again, i\\'m sorry


Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Cholette on Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:05 pm

Freeprincess wrote:Hi Cholette...actually the situation is flipped. I am the person people are excluding and had two people tell me they wouldn't get into a relationship with me unless I did A,B and C. It is exactly like you say: they don't want to be around me because I'm not in the same place they are to "press into God". To me they are being judgemental. Right now even though I want help and have wanted it...I feel they haven't seen that I have or given me credit to what I have done to "press in". I also do not trust them much anymore and sure don't feel like opening my jugular vein up to them. thank you so much for your validating comments. I appreciate the other comments as well. they helped me see different perspectives.

They are NOT to be in your life at all because you won't be able to learn from them and strive to be the better you. You will spend your time comparing yourself to them and never feel as adequate as God has made you to be..sooooo, move forward without them. That seems harsh, but when someone doesn't want to be around you because THEY SAY you aren't striving like they would want you to, then it's the wrong crowd. The Bible doesn't lie...it clearly says that when man stands in judgement of you, it's because their problem (the one they are judging you for) is bigger than yours. So because the Bible is TRUTH, I will say this...they aren't as "together' as they are making themselves out to be. To be as "close to God" that they say they are, they would have the fruit of God...with is patience, kindness, LOVE, etc...

Jesus NEVER made anyone feel smaller. Even Paul says that our lives are written Epistles...learned and read by ALL men! If they feel you aren't striving enough, then the burden is back on them...their lives aren't saying anything to make you strive...just sayin...

I'm sorry you are going through that, but I would venture to say that your life is most likely MORE authentic then theirs. Not a judgment...just an observation based on the Word of God.

Be encouraged!!


Do not fight FOR victory, but fight FROM THE PLACE of victory. Jesus has ALREADY won the battle!

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Freeprincess on Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:40 am

I don't understand why God has the mantel of His presence on this group of people. I feel His presence when I go to the main worship meeting, but everything else regarding their behavior tells me different. The messages in my mind (and from them) is maybe I deserve it because of my shortcomings and sin so therefore they are right. It's really hard to come up against it when the Lord is among them. I have been "included" before in one of their groups. I did feel the presence of God and also felt "in fellowship" with them to a point anyway...where I felt a part of them. But then some of my issues came up...I made a mistake here or there...and I was uninvited in a covert way...the person said she was not having the meetings until further notice but I have learned the meetings continued with those they chose to have there. I have been told that this place is a ministry not a church. And they choose people in various meetings (that keep changing all the time as to when, where and who) because they see them at a certain level...where they believe the Lord can use them, I guess. They always make comments about people being offended when they are not picked and that is that person's issue. One thing I know is that there isn't an element of love and humility to help "outsiders" up. It really is, if you are struggling, they feel you are to simply press into God more. I certainly don't feel mercy in it personally, but then their argument is to say that they are pointing out my sin and that is mercy. I don't feel any love. But then they tell me I only feel that because I have a demon of rejection and self hatred and that I have slandered the leadership because I said I was rejected when I was not. It was all in my head. So....back to the main question...why is God endorsing this with His presence?

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by TheWhiteShadow on Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:27 am

Wow, Freeprincess. I'm also sorry to hear that this behavior is going on. And I can understand how it would make you feel. :(

Here's the only thing that I can think of when it comes to why you feel God's presence among this kind of people - and this is by no means meant to justify it: I only remember that Jesus placed himself intimately in the midst of the 12 disciples, and these were men that had very similar issues as the people you are dealing with. The 12 had their moments if elitism. They demonstrated pride. They tried to keep others out of their circle, pushing even children away from Jesus. They wanted to destroy a town that rejected His message. They wanted to make a man stop casting out demons using Jesus' name because he wasn't a part of their group. And many more issues as well...

And yet, Jesus' presence was there (literally) among them. He had a plan for them in spite of their present (major!) failures. Just as God isn't giving up on you or I, that same grace extends to those people who you are interacting with. Their treatment certainly feels unfair, and it's certainly wrong - be all of us are being perfected little by little in God's own timing and ways.

Like I said, I don't want to excuse their behavior. I just wanted to throw out a perspective that might help to bring understanding as to why God's presence may be felt among them.

It's only a thought,
-Mark

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Freeprincess on Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:31 am

Hi White Shadow...the painful thing is they do not see the gifting in me and what is valuable about me. They do not really treat me like I have value. So yeah, they have some issues. So should I continue with this group. It's hard not to feel like I have failed here. Or that I didn't keep up with them and that is why I am "left behind". And then I think that I should keep trying because I do not want to be a quitter or worse loose out on what the Lord had for me here. I do not want to be the one on the other side of the "line of demarcation"...

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Daisy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:32 am

Great perspective Mark...


Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Daisy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:34 am

I pray these people will feel the conviction of God in this area...this is not how church should be. sigh praying


Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by TheWhiteShadow on Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:03 am

It's a tough question to answer, Freeprincess. If you feel that God still has something in store for you through your dealings with this group, then stay. However, God certainly isn't limited to them, either. If you feel that God is leading you elsewhere, then go. Whether you stay or go, be led by God.

I want to say this: Don't feel that you need to be "keeping up" with anyone else. We each have our own individual races to run. You can't compare your own spiritual growth and development to what you see or feel in others. In fact, God may very well be developing areas in yourself that the others are lacking.

You do have giftings. You are a valuable member of Christ's body.

You're also not alone in these sorts of situations. I once saw myself as "lagging behind" some of my more "spiritual" friends. And I was eventually led away from the group. And you know what? God has continued to develop the giftings in me and has used me to minister to His Body in ways that I would not have been able to had I stayed where I was. For the record, He's also continued to grow and develop the giftings of those in that group as well. I don't feel that I've missed out on anything as a result. I'm only saying this as a testimony that IF you decide to go elsewhere, God still has good things in store for you.

I'm not saying that you should. Only you know what God is leading you to do.

-Mark

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Freeprincess on Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:34 am

Thank you for your perspective and encouragements Mark...

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Dove-Solutions on Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:50 pm

Hi Freeprincess,

These were my thoughts as I read the posts on this thread. First and foremost....I am so sorry you are going through this right now. Let me add this one thing to all these other comments. First off you are the beloved of the Lord and the least of us is the first in the kingdom of heaven. In other words.....it does not matter if we have not been with the Lord as long as someone else or if we are not at the same spiritual maturity as another. God uses us anyway. He is the assigner of the gifts. He has given you yours and you are using it. If they do not see the gift it is their loss so to speak. The Lord says in the new testament when he sends out the disciples; if you go to a mans home and they bless you, stay and bless them but if they reject you, shake the dust from your sandals and go on your way. In other words bless those who bless you but leave behind those who refuse your blessings.

I pray this is an encouragement to you!

Love in Jesus,

Connie :glory:


~Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Himand He will direct your path.~ Proverbs 3:5-6

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Freeprincess on Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:56 pm

Thank you Dove Solutions. You have some great points.

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Re: Is it wrong to treat people this way

Post by Shan on Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:37 pm

Hi Freeprincess,

I want to echo what everyone else has said here. First of all, I'm so sorry you have been treated like this. There really is no excuse to treat someone this way, especially if they already know you struggle with rejection. However, if you truly do suffer from this issue, could you be hanging around in hopes of getting their approval?

I also want to address another possibility. Satan knows our shortcomings because we talk about them. He says things like, "See, even here you are rejected and by those who are closer to God. If they say you are not adequate enough to participate in their group, you must not be." It also creates a possibility that the person forgets about church too because it has brought about more pain. Satan is a liar, a thief and a destroyer and he would love nothing more than to keep you in a pit. But you have authority over all his power! You have to recognize the lie and call Satan on it. When I start to feel inadequate and rejected (I have struggled with it personally and have been very depressed at times) I like to quote 2 Corinthians 10:5 "I cast down that imagination and every high thing that exhalts itself against the knowledge of God and bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ."

I hope this helps. Be encouraged!

Shan

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