Demonic Dream Debate

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by seraph on Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:59 am


as for the dream... i find that really negative ones like that can be scare tactic types where the enemy gets in there and simply wants you to agree with it. wants you to get into 'fear'. if he can get you to agree w/ it (opposed to God's promises) he gets a foothold or perhaps solidifying a curse.

asking Jesus to heal the trauma over the past miscarriage, and professing God's Word of what He says about you is a power weapon. speak LIFE, bind up the enemy's 'ideas'.

xo, seraph


Last edited by daphanie02 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:32 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : outside ministry and book references)

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by seraph on Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:29 am

I don't really agree in giving the devil credit for our dreams. If a person is possessed it may be a different story
if by that you mean the enemy can't infiltrate our dreams, i do not agree. nothing to do with possession,(peter was not possessed and was accused of aligning w/ satan.) some dreams being purely scare tactic/intimidation type of thing. if the enemy can go to God and ask for access to a person to inflict... then dreams are not exempt. and demons jump on people in the night, that whole suffocation/oppression thing--if that is allowed by God for believers as violent as that is... and i think most christian dreamers attest to have experienced this.


does this thread dream incite 'warning or heads up' as main theme/feel or something that aligns more w/ enemy... that would be the dreamers decision. even with ugly things, we can discern the spirit on it. if it's real concern or worry showing up opposed to His promises then definitely need to get back into faith and His Word... but if it's from the enemy with the intent of making us feel like we're not in the Word or worrying but in truth we are obedient... see how it can become like a big guilt trip? realllllly have to discern cuz there's no condemnation in Christ Jesus.
we should not agree with the negative message.

i want to share about enemy 'hijacked dreams' i've experienced:
i have had dreams that are 'set up'... where the enemy has access and the sole purpose is to mine me for information to use against me. like a scene is set with a problem there to see what my reactions are...again, allowed by God. the thing about such dreams though... the enemy's plans are always exposed. in those dreams they especially expose themselves because if they get too close to me for too long they literally melt (the wicked melt Psalm 112:10). upon waking i would bind and cast that whole group so they would not get to share anything with any spirits over them. i very seldom have these dreams now... they have to be pretty desperate to send a 'team' because they never come back LOL.

"...be careful of giving the devil credit for things that may be God."
curses:
if one reads through curses listed in the bible, easy to note judgements given by God for disobedience.. I don't in any way blame the devil for everything 'bad'. many people have issues with the whole 'generational curse' thing... but in my own life i have taken it to test and been delivered from many things i had known since before the age of reason (entire life) and not possibly opened up myself. i simply would like to encourage people, that if we are promised 'abundant life' and we are feeling robbed of that truth that a curse very well could be the reason why.

mia, did your your brother's accident happen before all of your dreams and later mirror close-call? or did you receive a warning dream prior to his accident? what came first, the initial trauma or the dream?

mia: really great sharing about changing one's outcome w/ scriptural ref to back it up. very important for your book! congrats on that opportunity btw!
: )
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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:51 am

Hi Seraph,

Thanks for responding. =)

Job was not possessed by Satan his external circumstances were afflicted. Job's dreams were ALL attributed to God in spite of his afflications from the devil. Job 33

There is no bibilcal evidence that the devil has any effect on our dreams, therefore we don't teach and don't allow it to be taught. Our ministry is 100% biblically founded.

I agree that there is a thing called sleep paralysis (attack) during which time a person can feel a presence in the room. It's happened to me, but it wasn't a dream. It was for real. I don't believe that God allows it. We open ourselves up to it. Once we get prayer for it, it goes away. Trust me, the suffocating happened to me nightly for a year and the paralysis has happened a couple times too and it was HORRIBLE. Once I got prayer, it ended and never returned.

Since we know that dreams are from God and there's no biblical support of them being from the devil, we don't teach that way. We don't glorify the devil's ability. We glorify God. If we get a dream that seems to indicate there is a devil present, we encorage prayer and that's that. The devil is not going to let you know where he's operating, it would be counterproductive, like in your case. You knew where the enemy was attacking and as a result he was routed. Not a very good tactical plan on the devil's part. A general in an army does not give away his position.

My dreams happened many after my brother's accident.

Thanks, seraph!



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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by seraph on Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:02 pm

if the enemy can plant thoughts, ideas in our mind during waking hours....but not at night ...
justify evil or bad in dreams by saying "it has to be a worry or concern you have... if it's not God" but if one really doesn't have that worry or concern....that gets a bit twisted, on a person's psyche-- imho. especially if your only alternative is that a person must be possessed. it doesn't say that possessed people can have dreams from the enemy either in the Word--LOL (the sheep know His voice and will not follow a stranger John 10:4)
I do hope my honest view will not be axed or censored... I am not teaching, I am questioning. Your answer is 'only in the Bible', so I bring up these real concerns before you.

i asked about your brother n' trauma, because traumatic experiences with fears and etc. are like blood that attract sharks. if they are not healed, they can open a door for future attack. Job was handed over to satan in the first place because he did not trust in God...he worried...

"When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send and consecrate them, rising up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, "Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." Thus Job did continually." Job 1:5

satan could not see this...all he saw were holy offerings made unto God. i only share this because we have to make sense of what caused the access to begin with... God is not cruel.
so...in a moment of trauma, when we show fear, worry etc. and instead of turning 180 and repenting etc. but just shake it off, because we feel we didn't sin or recognize that to embrace even a moment of fear is not being in faith.... access is open for more of the same to come upon us. repetition of a similar bad instance, --yes, God will warn cuz He loves us-- but we have to consider the source and shut the door so it doesn't continue to happen over and over like a curse.

k, blessings...have a great weekend,
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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:02 pm

Seraph,

I don't understand what concerns you are asking about so forgive me if it appears that I am ignoring them. I am not.

Many times these dreams that the devil gets credit for, have foreknowledge of a future event in them. The bible clearly states that ONLY God knows the future.

Isaiah 46:8

Remember this, and be assured; Recall it to mind, you transgressors. Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; [I am] God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done


yes, God will warn cuz He loves us-- but we have to consider the source and shut the door so it doesn't continue to happen over and over like a curse.

Rightly so! That's why God gives us the dreams. When I had the dreams about being at a party and worrying about bleeding to death, they were in exact detail, which means they were prophetic. These dreams cannot be from the enemy because he doesn't know the future; they are from God. So, when God shows us through a dream that the devil is attacking us, or that we have an area that needs to be fixed, then we pray and trust and thank God for the information because the purpose of the dream is to fix the problem.

As far as possessed dreams, I don't know what can happen in a possessed person since i've never been possessed and the bibile isn't clear about their dreams. Therefore, I don't try to teach what I don't know. But I do know we don't give the devil credit that he doesn't deserve, nor credit that would be counterproductive to hearing from God.

My ministry focus is to keep our eyes on God, and off the devil as much as possible, because I believe in doing what the people in the bible did.... unless they were casting him out or rebuking him, they did very little talking about him, and that is the standard for everything that I do with this ministry - I keep it strictly by the bible. After spending years not seeing results because I was doing things based on men's doctrines, I decided that I'd spent long enough spinning my wheels on man-made doctrines and philosophies, so if it can't be shown to me very plainly and clearly in the bible, I let someone else deal with it because I want to spend all my time being productive.

Much Love,
Mia


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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by seraph on Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:01 pm

the warning dream was from the Lord... I was saying that the trauma opened the door for the enemy to access the events happening in the first place. although the enemy has access until the trauma is healed... Jesus will warn us prophetically. now the enemy... if he knows he has access via an unhealed trauma can send us dreams to scare us... if we align with them--- it is US that brings that negative future to life, not anything prophetic from the enemy.

I have never said the enemy has given me anything prophetic regarding future events. What I was saying is that in the dreams I've had... by the course of the dream...by topic, by scenario it is plain to see what weaknesses they are trying to see if I have. Nothing prophetic there. But because I recognize what they are targeting/trying to find out...they reveal and compromise themselves! God allows it because the enemy always flubs up-- silly enemy thinks that they can go to God, get permission to torment or harm His kids and get away with it??? I don't think so.

In no way does having a enemy dream and sharing the experience glorify or focus on the enemy, but through it I'm simply sharing that I've personally experienced it....it really happens... but God always wins.

I do not cast them to the footstool of Jesus by the power of beezlebub; I confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh-- is Lord and Savior, died for our sins, bridged the gap to Father-God by rising again to be seated at the rt. hand of the Father. And by my good fruit I shall be known... even if the bible does not spell out very clearly, that like we are to take thoughts captive by day... that it's possible that they enter in the nighttime as well.

having a dream from the enemy does not lessen the power of God, nor make me possessed. I am for Jesus, not against. I share to empower other believers... because even if 'bad things' happen in the nightwatch... to discern that if it doesn't bear being from God, nor the soul that it must be taken captive... not left to torment and recur.

geez, i had no idea this would go on like this, but i hope you can see me as a sister in Jesus Christ. if you can see this like a story I've seen on a children's program about 2 sides shouting: "Red hat! Green hat!" Whereby one side sees red, the other sees green, but truth be told the hat is 1/2 red and green. if not, that's perfectly okay, because we all must know who we are in Him alone and we can both go our ways under His hand of promise. we answer to Him alone, and that's a beautiful thing. anything more you feel you need to add validate your method...even if it discredits mine entirely... that is fine, i've shared what's been on my heart to and will not go on needlessly more-so.

blessings on you & all you set your hands to,
in Yeshua,
seraph

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:14 pm

Seraph,

I totally see you as a sister in Christ. I believe in getting along inspite of our differences. I just don't agree with giving the devil credit for our dreams and ask that it not be taught here.

Much Love,
mia


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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by daphanie02 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:30 pm

seraph wrote:
i want to share about enemy 'hijacked dreams' i've experienced:
i have had dreams that are 'set up'... where the enemy has access and the sole purpose is to mine me for information to use against me. like a scene is set with a problem there to see what my reactions are...again, allowed by God. the thing about such dreams though... the enemy's plans are always exposed. in those dreams they especially expose themselves because if they get too close to me for too long they literally melt (the wicked melt Psalm 112:10). upon waking i would bind and cast that whole group so they would not get to share anything with any spirits over them.

I understand where you are coming from, my husband and i get into these discussions alot. My thing is, if the dream were given by the devil, why would he have revealed his plan? its to my knowledge that the devil is not wise, but cunning. to me its kinda like when the pharasees accused Jesus of casting out demons by beelzebub. Why would the devil give us a dream to intimidate us thereby revealing his plan? Isnt that like the kingdom devided against itself?
God does give us terrifying dreams.
Job 7:13 "When I think my bed will comfort me
and my couch will ease my complaint, even then you frighten me with dreams
and terrify me with visions,
My thing is, if the devil can infiltrate our dreams, i have yet to find a biblical instance that supports it.

I dreamed i would have a misgcarriage around my birthday...very real, terrifying literal dream...i woke up and rebuked the devil thinking it was from him...i never once thought anything else about it until it happened. No i dont have generational curses I believe, as obedient Christians,we are free from that. I do believe it applies to those who are living ungodly lifestyles. God would not punish me for something my grandfather did and i can provide scripture to back that up. I believe that sometimes bad things happen. It rains on the just and the unjust. we live in a sinful cursed world and these things happen...what matters is obedience, faith and love. i think thats what Mia meant when she said not wanting to give the devil too much credit. Sorry for all that...just felt i should add my 2 cents :) should we move this topic to another forum? (Sorry Erica)



Laura Boaz (aka Daph)


 


 


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Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:36 pm

Probably we should move it.

When I said that the devil wouldn't let us know his plans, your scripture is perfect to support that!

I think that we people start developing opinions based on our faulty perceptions of reality we get into error. Which is why I believe in doing nothing outside of the Word.

In this case the end result is the same: Whether you think the dream is from God or the devil, it's an opportunity to take the thing to prayer.

Which might make one think, If the devil knows me then he wouldn't warn me of this because he knows i'll must kick him out, so it must be God.


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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Gissy2 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:55 pm


I have a question. If you are in a sleep-like state..not a dream but in the mist of sleep-wake, in your mind you can hear a voice telling you the future, you can ask the voice a question and the voice answers you back in your thoughts....there is no sleep paralysis but intense pressure....can this be demonic? can satan operate like this as well?


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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by owen on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:44 pm

seraph wrote:
having a dream from the enemy does not lessen the power of God, nor make me possessed.

Hi Seraph!!

I would really really love to know if you can show me a vesre in Bible about having dreams from the enemy..

I was reading this thread and it really interests me what you think the Bible said about it.


In Jesus,

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by dreamster on Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:13 am

i havnt read all the previous stuff norty D lol! ,,but owin heres a thort ,,not 2 answer ur question ,,but a possable pewrspective,, the scrip ezk 13;3 wer God says they prophacy outta ther own spirits,, not from him ,, then if u hava wounded spirit ,,is it not possable that it may affect drms one kood hav ???,, D

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:08 am

That scripture D, is referring to people who prophecy falsely to control pepole.


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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by owen on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:54 pm

dreamster wrote:i havnt read all the previous stuff norty D lol! ,,but owin heres a thort ,,not 2 answer ur question ,,but a possable pewrspective,, the scrip ezk 13;3 wer God says they prophacy outta ther own spirits,, not from him ,, then if u hava wounded spirit ,,is it not possable that it may affect drms one kood hav ???,, D

Amen Gen D, I understand what you mean, and it didnt answer my question though. But you are right, spiritual wounds can bring disaster in our life if keep unhealed. nerd bandaid

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by owen on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:55 pm

Mia Sherwood wrote:That scripture D, is referring to people who prophecy falsely to control pepole.

:yeahthat: Exactly!

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by sonoftheKing on Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:14 pm

I have long debated this with my wife for it certainly seems that dreams are given to me by the devil. I think back at all the dreams that I have had and think of evil demonic and frankly sinful dreams that I have had before, that dont apply to my thoughts or my character. My wife told me where she stands and challenged me to find Biblical references of where satan was allowed to enter our dreams or tempt us with dreams and I have not been able to find proof. After reading this post though something came to me and I would like to share it. There are tons of places where God has done things that seem out of character from our perspective. The bible sais that God hardened pharoes heart, the Bible sais that God sent an evil spirit on saul after he had disobeyed Gods commandments, In the book of Job job says that God gave him terrible dreams, the frightful dream that nebuchadnezzar had and daniel interpreted twice first about the kingdoms and secondly about how the king was going to eat grass like oxen. It is plainly evident that God does send evil spirits and terrible dreams and visions to men. From my limited and quite frankly bleak existence these things seem out of character for a loving and caring God. The Bible clearly states though that God does not change that He is the same yesterday today and forever. I also know that God is just and He loves me and everyone so much that He sent his only begotten Son to die for us. So whats my point? Its that God knows the beginning from the end He knows which of us is going to walk with Him and be faithful to the end and He also knows which ones wont. This is hard for us to grasp with our perspective of time but God doesnt live in time He is not constrained by time He is able to do anything. The word of God says in Job 33:14-18 For God does speak—now one way, now another—
though no one perceives it.
15 In a dream, in a vision of the night,
when deep sleep falls on people
as they slumber in their beds,
16 he may speak in their ears
and terrify them with warnings,
17 to turn them from wrongdoing
and keep them from pride,
18 to preserve them from the pit,
their lives from perishing by the sword

This verse stuck out to me because it tells us why God sometimes gives us dreams to terrify us with warnings. At the end of the day God is love thats what He is and He gives us warnings to help us. There are plenty of dreams that i have woken up from and thought that they are from the devil but it seems there is no verse in the Bible to back that up. I can not say either way because I dont know Im not God and im not satan. What I do know is that if God wanted to show me a demonic dream that would shake me and change my heart and point out an attack or anything he is not limited by my box.

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:30 am

Absolutely bravo!!!! This is EXACTLY how I feel about the biblical truth of who God is.

We try to put him into our doctrinal box and then explain away the scriptures that don't agree with it.

AND when we see something terrifying He is right there to help us to change if we but ask.

The other thing about our dreams is that sometimes what we try to blame on the devil can very frequently be our digusting flesh. God only knows how depraved we would be without Him.


Last edited by Mia Sherwood on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:50 am; edited 2 times in total


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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:48 am

Gissy2 wrote:
I have a question. If you are in a sleep-like state..not a dream but in the mist of sleep-wake, in your mind you can hear a voice telling you the future, you can ask the voice a question and the voice answers you back in your thoughts....there is no sleep paralysis but intense pressure....can this be demonic? can satan operate like this as well?


I'm not sure. But I do know that only God knows the future. So if the voice was telling you of a very specific future, not a generic anyone can guess prophecy, then I wouldn't give credit of it to the devil and I'm very careful about not blaspheming in any case.



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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Gissy2 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:46 pm

Mia Sherwood wrote:
Gissy2 wrote:
I have a question. If you are in a sleep-like state..not a dream but in the mist of sleep-wake, in your mind you can hear a voice telling you the future, you can ask the voice a question and the voice answers you back in your thoughts....there is no sleep paralysis but intense pressure....can this be demonic? can satan operate like this as well?


I'm not sure. But I do know that only God knows the future. So if the voice was telling you of a very specific future, not a generic anyone can guess prophecy, then I wouldn't give credit of it to the devil and I'm very careful about not blaspheming in any case.



thanks mia, it was specific to my future, no dates. i have been going back and forth on this matter because i have been thinking, how could satan read my mind unless i was speakin out loud when i asked the question (which i don't remember) this topic has sparked my question. i was always told satan can't read our minds so i am wondering also, how can he project mental images on our minds eg in dreams???

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:01 pm

The other thing is that everyone is so sure that the devil can give us dreams but nobody suggests that the devil can give us visions.


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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Gissy2 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:21 pm

Mia Sherwood wrote:The other thing is that everyone is so sure that the devil can give us dreams but nobody suggests that the devil can give us visions.

that's an excellent point scratching chin

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:28 pm

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that was God. I'm not that smart.


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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Gissy2 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:34 pm


laugh

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by traveller on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:21 pm

Mia Sherwood wrote: The other thing is that everyone is so sure that the devil can give us dreams but nobody suggests that the devil can give us visions.

thanks for that Mia, because I've actually wondered that about one of the visions I had a couple of months ago. It caused me so much fear that I thought it couldn't be from God, but somehow I wasn't sure. I still haven't received full understanding of that vision though.

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Re: Demonic Dream Debate

Post by Mia Sherwood on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:31 pm

Prayer and fasting works!


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